Gallerist & Curator: LOUISE CHIGNAC

The artist Cecilia Sjoholm first introduced me to Louise Chignac, the Founder and Director of Canopy Collections.

Louise and I share a passion for helping artists get their work into the world in new ways, and both started new online initiatives in 2020, in the heart of the pandemic. It’s been wonderful to see Canopy Collections go from strength to strength and artists making a living through their endeavours.

I’m a huge believer in expanding opportunities for artists, and Canopy Collections is a great example of how careful curation combined with commitment to the experience for both artist and audience can create lifelong relationships and champions.

Read on to hear what drives Louise and what kind of support she offers artists...

Louise Chignac, Founder and Director of Canopy Collections © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

Louise Chignac, Founder and Director of Canopy Collections © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections 

Louise Chignac (b. 1990, Paris) has a ten-year experience as a contemporary art curator, critic and consultant.

She started her career in 2010 as curatorial assistant to Guillaume Désanges (now President of the Palais the Tokyo, Paris). After studying art history at La Sorbonne University in Paris, she moved to London to complete her MA in Curating at Goldsmiths College.

From 2014 to 2018, she managed Cranford Collection, one of the most significant private collections of contemporary art in Europe. She has also collaborated with international galleries, including MOT International, London and Brussels, The Gallery of Everything, London, and Ordovas, London and New York.

In 2015, she contributed to the inaugural edition of the Art Night festival in London and co-edited its first publication, Expanding the City’s Boundaries.In 2016, she collaborated with Christie’s London on a major private collection sale entitled Absobloodylutely! and its original catalogue.

As an independent curator, Louise has exhibited the work of Francis Alÿs, Susan Hiller, Pierre Huygue, Derek Jarman, Laure Prouvost, Dan Rees and Ulay.

Chromoscape by David Batchelor available via Canopy Collections @ Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

What’s currently inspiring you?

People, and their home! Since launching Canopy Collections in September 2020, I’ve become fascinated by what people choose to display in their interiors, be they sentimental objects, postcards and pictures, an original artwork or statement design piece. Most of our relationships with clients start with discussions around living with art, rather than in a white gallery space, which feels more intimate.

What are you working on?

We just closed an exhibition curated in collaboration with Bowman Sculpture in the heart of St James’s, London, in which we presented eleven artists ranging from the 19th century to the present day, including Auguste Rodin, Barbara Hepworth, Emily Young, Richard J. Butler and William Cobbing. This project was born out of an invitation from Robert and Mica Bowman and it’s been a great pleasure to work with their team on creating such an original display that combined historical pieces along with new paintings and sculptures by emerging artists.

I’m now working on new collaborations, including on a bespoke programme of art events with BARNES International at their South Kensington showroom. Our first exhibition with them presents a new selection of paintings by German artist Jost Münster, which is open to the public until September.

We’ve also just announced an exclusive online collaboration with British artist David Batchelor, which is a great honour! The launch of ten lithograph prints on Canopy Collections coincides with his first museum retrospective at Compton Verney, to open at the end of the month — check it out online!

Installation view, Canopy Collections x Modernity Stockholm, an exhibition in London, 2022 © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

Installation view, Canopy Collections x Modernity Stockholm, an exhibition in London, 2022 © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your work? What do you care about?

At the centre of everything I do is the human relationship, whether it is with artists, with clients or with our professional partners. The art world can be a rather difficult environment to navigate, whether you’re new to it or part of it. That’s one of the reasons why we created Canopy Collections, to provide a curated platform where everyone is welcome, to browse, to learn, to look for advice and to buy art, without the unnecessary faff.

Who are your mentors?

I’ve had the privilege to work with incredibly strong and intelligent women over the past ten years, especially with collector Muriel Salem and curator Anne Pontégnie. We worked together for five years at Cranford Collection in London and I still have a very close relationship with both of them. I learnt a lot from Muriel’s sharp eye, and from Anne’s attitude towards artists, her knowledge of the market and the world of institutions.

A very different experience — I will always remember working with Susan Hiller on curating her solo exhibition at MOT International in Brussels when I was 25. Without her knowing it, she taught me a lot. Her determination and precision were very inspiring.

A painting by Salomé Wu in a collector's home, London, 2022 © Sidika Owen
A painting by Salomé Wu in a collector's home, London, 2022 © Sidika Owen

How do you discover artists and what makes you decide you want to work with an artist?

By coming across their work, always, whether it is online or in a physical exhibition, or an artist getting in touch with me! Then I look at their work very closely, their CV, and if I’m intrigued, I ask to meet them. I only choose artists who have a solid dedication to their practice, and whose work has a strong identity, recognisable amongst many. The selection process never happens overnight, it takes time to fully understand the development of an artist and to nurture a long-term relationship. It is also a responsibility and a commitment, as I want to present our clients with artists who have a great potential and whose work really is special.

Installation view of Words Don't Come Easy, Canopy Collections’ first exhibition in Paris, 2021 © Ollie Hammick Canopy Collections
Installation view of Words Don't Come Easy, Canopy Collections’ first exhibition in Paris, 2021 © Ollie Hammick Canopy Collections

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

Artists need different things, depending on the nature of their work and where they’re at in their career. I’m currently working with over twenty-five artists, mostly based in the UK and all over Europe. They often come to me when they have new work they want to talk about or need advice on a new project, whether it’s a museum exhibition, a public commission, or a new book they’re working on. As much as possible, I do regular studio visits with them, and of course I curate exhibitions to introduce their work to a wider audience. Most of my job consists in keeping up to date with their artistic production, and then share it with other actors within the art world and beyond — collectors, advisors, curators… I believe there are plenty of ways to promote an artist’s work that haven’t been fully explored yet, and that go beyond the traditional white gallery space and market. I’m lucky to work with artists who share this vision and trust me.

Louise Chignac and artist Ellie MacGarry at her London studio, 2021 © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

Louise Chignac and artist Ellie MacGarry at her London studio, 2021 © Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

How do you go about building a market for an artist?

There was a time when this was the main responsibility of the gallery, but over the past few years it has also become the artist’s duty: to have the right connections, to grow a substantial number of followers on social media and to be ‘successful’ (i.e., represented by a gallery or exhibited in a public museum) by the age of 30. I have a lot of respect for artists who excel at promoting themselves, but I also think it’s not for everyone. Building a market for an artist most often takes time, to me it’s all about commitment — for the artist to be committed to their practice, for their patrons or clients to be committed in their support and for anyone around to be committed to the conversation. There are many artists out there who haven’t had the recognition they deserve yet, but if their work is good, I do believe that commitment often pays off.

Since Canopy Collections doesn’t have a permanent space, a lot of our work when it comes to promoting artists is done through collaborations: Bowman Sculpture, the Van Gogh House, Modernity Stockholm, The Invisible Collection, Turnbull & Asser…we’ve had the privilege to collaborate with outstanding galleries and brands over the past two years, which contribute to raising our artists’ profile and reputation.

What risks have you taken in the past that did not go well but you learnt the most from?

Working with people I knew I wouldn’t get on with. It never works out in the long term, especially when it comes down to values. I feel so lucky I can choose who I work with now, and to have the best business partner in the world: Cécile Ganansia.

Cécile Ganansia and Louise Chignac, Directors of Canopy Collections in their London office @ Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

Cécile Ganansia and Louise Chignac, Directors of Canopy Collections in their London office @ Ollie Hammick / Canopy Collections

What are your highlights since starting Canopy Collections two years ago?

The launch of our very first online collection of course, and the moment we realised that it nearly sold out. Exhibiting our artists at the historic Van Gogh House in London. Our website being awarded by Site Inspire for its sharp and user-friendly design. Receiving a phone call, out of the blue, from a very established collector (who I can’t name here), to tell me our selection of artists was outstanding and that they hadn’t come across a better online gallery yet. And the fact that the Covid years have finally come to an end (I hope!).

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Senior Content Designer: ROSIE WANEK

I had the pleasure of working closely with Rosie Wanek at Somerset House, London. Rosie was Head of Exhibitions Management and together we worked on an ambitious programme, delivering large and mid-scale ticketed and free exhibitions, installations, and events, across the whole site.

Rosie is blessed with being a curious, surprising, compassionate creative, able to combine eclectic research and original thinking with meticulous project management (I am still in awe of her Excel skills!). She makes fascinating connections between incongruous objects and subjects, highlighting the themes and details the rest of us miss, in a subtle yet compelling way.

She is an honest, caring, and considerate leader, empowering those she works with, always running a calm and steady ship, even in turbulent creative storms. I learned so much from her and would happily jump on board, wherever she steered the bow, in still or choppy waters. She is also patient and determined enough to whizz up  the most amazing, desirable clothes in her scant down time.

Rosie Wanek, Photo Jonathan Powell

Rosie is a Senior Content Designer at Event Communications where she leads on the content design and interpretation of new visitor experiences for culture and tourism projects around the world. Rosie is driven by an interest in using stories and media to connect people which she has brought to her work as a freelance curator and trainer. Previously Rosie worked at the V&A and Somerset House, leading on the development and delivery of exhibitions programmes diverse in scale and content within the UK and internationally.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

Making things and reading things keep me afloat outside work - one offers a direct connection between creativity, materiality and the bodily, the other provides an imaginative space for reflection on our humanness - these are things I really value. Cutting out monthly international travel and commuting has really helped me give more time to these things and find a bit more balance in my life which has been welcome.

I’ve been designing and making most of my own clothes since I was a teenager - I love the combination of authoring my appearance, how I feel physically and the practical challenges of working with materials (I am a super-tactile person - sometimes I think I was drawn to working in museums because it means I can legitimately touch the objects - with gloves on of course!). Recently I have been developing a series of ‘dumpling’ (read quilted) garments to stay warm and smart whilst working from home. I’ve also started to make my own bras which is a whole new exciting journey.

Designing and cutting patterns demands all my concentration but when I am making up a garment I listen to podcasts - I am particularly drawn to things which connect intimate personal stories to our wider social context. Two favourites are 99% Invisible and Earhustle. I am also particularly excited about a new discovery Kerning cultures which shares a wide range of stories from the Arab world.

As much as I have really appreciated less travel in some respects, I really miss the excitement of going to new places and especially eating new foods. So, I have been researching and cooking (and messing up) tasty new things from Japan, Mexico, India and elsewhere - we are so lucky in London to be able to get so many ingredients. I’ve also always read lots of fiction in translation from around the world and I’ve really missed hunting for new things to read in a real bookshop (ideally Foyles on Charing Cross Road where the staff picks are the best!) - I especially enjoyed Breasts and Eggs by Mieko Kawakami, Dark Satellites by Clemens Meyer and lots of travel writing from Eland Books.

And lastly there is nothing more joyful - or good for clearing the mind - than swimming in the lido on my back looking at the sky, so I have been doing that as much as I can.

Kimchi and Chips, Halo, The Edmond J. Safra Fountain Court, Somerset House, London, Photo Somerset House Trust

What are you working on right now?

So, I can’t say exactly because the project is under an NDA, but…I can say that I am working for Event Communications on the redevelopment of a museum about the history of a place in Asia. I am leading on the content design/interpretation for the visitor experience. It has me thinking a lot of about the politics of history writing, and the power of design to shape how we think about the past and present.

Over the years I have found that having a few side projects outside of my main occupation really helps me retain perspective on my own work and the sector more broadly, it can be so easy to get lost in the vastness and million details of big projects. So currently I am mentoring a fashion design duo who are developing their practice and preparing for an initial presentation of their work in progress at a gallery in the Netherlands. Accompanying them on their journey as they think through their design philosophy, shape their practice, and start to look at how this might express itself publicly in an exhibition format is so exciting and inspiring.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your work? What do you care about?

I suppose at the bottom of it all I believe that arts and culture are key for creating more generosity between one another, a sense of connection and investment in the success of others - and where possible empathy. It’s a place where we can look beyond the things that might appear to divide us and inspire us to think and make in new more generous ways.

I believe this lies as much in how the arts is organised and run as the content created.  Everything we do creates ripples of meaning with real life consequences which we are responsible for, so I value things that are really considered and critically thought through, processes as much as content. The result of the project is important, but the experience of working on it also hugely meaningful - this is particularly true when you are touring exhibitions internationally where you are to a degree an ambassador for the institution, culture, and country you are representing.  As part of that, respecting your audience and working partners is paramount - respect that they are choosing to spend their time/money with you, respect the variety of their motivations for being present.  I aspire to this informing every aspect of my decision making, we are there for them.

Eloise HawserRing Vortex Imaging Phantom, 2018, Medical imaging phantom, glass and steel plinth, Phantom on loan from Sheffield University and Leeds Test Objects,
Part of the Charles Russell Speechlys Terrace Room Series, Terrace Rooms, Somerset House, London, Photo Tim Bowditch

How has this last year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

There is so much about how we behave to one another that is harmful for ourselves and the planet that has long troubled me deeply - this year has seen some of these ongoing issues express themselves in specific events attracting wider attention.

For a while, my focus was within the gallery/museum walls, wrangling with how to make the best use of the exhibition medium to create stories all could enjoy - but in the past five years what has come to trouble me more is the role arts organisations/museums have in shaping society itself - these are not the benign entities they try to present themselves as.

Working closely with international teams and particularly spending time in India with my partners’ family over the past ten years has provided a strong contrast to the context in which I grew up in terms of how knowledge (and culture) is created/perpetuated and presented.

This winter I was reading Julian Baggini’s How the World Thinks: A Global History of Philosophy and thinking particularly about the implications for our diverse society of the fact that museums are the expression of a type of knowledge construction specific to philosophy underpinning western culture.

This aspect of museums is one of the factors limiting the range of perspectives and experiences expressed in mainstream culture.

In master-planning-thought-experiment-mode I’ve been asking myself: What might spaces where knowledge and culture are created and shared look like if they took as their foundational starting point different and/or a mixed senses of how knowledge (and culture) is created/perpetuated/presented? And what might this mean for the shape of society? I get that this sounds all a bit academic, but I believe it's important to really dig deep and challenge the foundations of what we do if we want to create real change.

Oh, and in terms of working practices there are all the Zoom calls too! - and, sure, it is fantastic how much you can get done on Zoom, but I strongly believe quality time spent face to face with your collaborators remains incredibly important for building and maintaining strong trusting relationships. I am a very ‘in real life’ kinda person. Not least I suppose because I think we are embodied humans and there is nothing like experiencing our embodiment together for cultivating connection, generosity, and respectful behaviour to one another.

Post Modernism, V&A, 2011, Photo Carmody Groarke

What do you think should change in the way arts organisations operate?

Oh, so many things! The arts are facing some of the biggest funding cuts and I think arts organisations really need to come together as a sector (linking up with Higher Education) and work on presenting their value to society (including the economy) in a way that is compelling to the government to secure funding - we are storytellers, we should be able to do this better!

I wish we could break down/rework some of the entrenched production methods that divide sectors within (and beyond) the arts and make creating interdisciplinary experiences difficult.

The gulf between what arts organisations say they want to do for their audiences and what they achieve is often vast. Arts organisations are still far from being fully inclusive and representative either in staff or the stories told. I think in part this is a legacy from the biases of our deficient education system and arts organisations should be doing everything they can to reach out and counter this - making as many people as possible, from as young as possible, feel that their organisation is a place where they can be vital contributors.

What opportunities does the advancement of technology provide for both exhibition making and engaging audiences?

New communications technologies have been great for bringing people together in many ways - from supporting international collaborations without travel that is expensive and costly to the planet, having dialogue with potential audiences and creating and sharing new forms of content.

They offer new ways to gather and tell stories - untethered from objects and artefacts - which is exciting because there are so many people everywhere for whom important aspects of culture are not best expressed through the object-based epistemology that traditional western museums are based on.

However, I think it is super important that arts organisations approach these, and other new technologies, with caution. Especially with the full awareness that they are not innocent/benevolent tools that serve only the purpose of the user but are highly politicised and fundamentally alter the meaning of the content we load into them.

When I was at university, I came across the writings of Marshall McLuhan, who was not fashionable at all at the time, but really shaped my thinking. With the rise of social media his ideas have seen a renaissance in the last years - his frequently quoted phrase ‘the medium is the message’ has never been more important.

The Fabric of India, 2015, V&A Photo Gitta Gschwendtner

What do you want your contribution to be in future?

Hmm, this is a bit of a work in progress currently (see above!). On a day-to-day basis I hope that I always bring a useful mix of creativity, imagination, humanity, and practicality to all the projects I work on. 

Process, Part of Print! Tearing It Up, 2018, River Rooms & Lancaster Rooms, Somerset House, London, Photo Rosie Wanek

Do you have a favourite exhibition/project/event that you have curated and if so, what makes it particularly special to you?

Not really, there are lots of projects I loved for different reasons. Interestingly it is not the biggest or most high profile that make it to this list...

  • Process - was a zine festival Somerset House presented with fantastic Somerset House Studios residents OOMK! - this was a delight of a project on a shoestring budget. Walking around the festival you could see zine makers and visitors alike were having a wonderful time connecting over a shared passion. It was really refreshing as I’ve worked on a lot of very large projects where you don’t get much immediate contact with the audience.
  • Fabric of India - I really enjoyed working with the curators to draw out makers stories and processes, especially researching and setting up filming with some fantastic artisans in India - we produced the most viewed digital content the V&A had created to date.
  • Tour of Masterpieces of World Ceramics - I toured this show to three comparatively small venues in Germany, Syria and Turkey. The exhibition clearly meant a lot of each of the venues, it was the jewel in their programme for that year and I loved working with those teams, building connections as we overcame the many many challenges we faced together.

You’ve been involved in creating and managing multiple touring exhibitions – what are your top 3 key learnings?

So, in this order...

1. Get the best understanding you can of the culture you are working with - both the broader culture of the place, and the culture of the institution - and use this to build strong relationships. The more you know about ways of working, how decisions are made and by who, taboo topics or ways of expressing things, what will open conversations, what will close them down, the easier it will be to collaborate happily and productively avoiding/overcoming the inevitable challenges smoothly.

2. Try to understand what the value of the exhibition is to the host venue, and their audience. What is the institutional narrative around this exhibition? Why did they (really) choose to host it? What role does it play in their programme? How does it contribute to constructing/maintaining their brand? The answers to these questions are often not immediately evident but can be very helpful for enabling the venue to achieve their goals and understanding why they might at times want different things to you.

3.  Embrace the contract (or its equivalent). Sure, it often isn’t fun, but think of negotiating the contract as an opportunity to find out what you really both want and work through differences of agenda in a comparatively safe space - before you are under real pressure trying to install the exhibition/print the catalogue/manufacture the merchandise. That said, be very conscious of point 1 and 2 when you do approach this…you might need to take a slightly different approach, either way it is worth having those types of conversation early on to avoid bigger challenges later.

Perfume, A Sensory Journey Through Contemporary Scent, 2017, (Installation view), Somerset House, London, Photo c/o Somerset House Trust

What risks have you taken in your career that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

Touring exhibitions internationally, especially to political unstable parts of the world, is never without risk - some risks bigger and more real than others. I have had a few nervous moments witnessing hair raising things in my time that proved useful lessons (no I will not say more on that!).

On a more personal note, though, a few years ago I left a full-time job overseeing the development and delivery of an arts programme to take a short-term curatorial contract. This felt terrifying, not least because I was wracked with imposter syndrome, but without that leap though I would not be doing the more content focused work I do now.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Resources - tricky, I think though that there are inner resources that artists can draw on to help. The imbalance of scale between an artist studio and a large arts organisation poses huge challenges for both sides - they are subject to such different demands and restrictions. Trying to understand where your collaborators are coming from and staying professional - on both sides - will really help get the best results for all. I think that the tips above relating to touring exhibitions can also be usefully translated to artists working with institutions/arts organisations.

North: Fashioning Identity, 2018, East Wing Galleries, Somerset House, London, Photo courtesy Somerset House Trust

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

The arts are varied, offering a wide range of working environments and jobs, try to get some insider knowledge to work out where you might be able to contribute best and be happiest. And remember job titles only mean so much look at what the job involves and go by that.

Don’t be disparaged if you don’t feel you belong - keep going, be bold and say what you think (strategically). I very much felt out of place, particularly at the start, but what made me different is also what has given me some of my most valuable successes.

Seek out mentor figures - I can’t overstate the value of having more experienced allies to reflect on your work with, give you a nudge or a boost of confidence where you need it, or suggest avenues you might never have thought of.

‘Keep your eyes on the prize’ - this is totally a Ceri quote - but it is the perfect expression of how important it is to be clear about what you are trying to achieve, and what are the priorities. Be ready to let the things/processes go that just aren’t that important to secure the things that really matter - this is also a great tip for touring exhibitions and collaborations between arts organisations and artists.

Make sure to document the projects you work on (in whatever capacity that may be) so you can use those images later in your career and reflect what you have done.


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Head of Programme: ELINOR MORGAN

Elinor Morgan is lucky - her face perfectly reflects the kind of person she is; warm, generous, kind, considerate and thoughtful. She radiates positivity and optimism, and is a real pleasure to work with and fun to be with. She attracts good people, with a great ethos, that make great work.

She is a champion of artists, audiences and creating extraordinary things for everybody, everywhere. She believes in situating artists, learning, critical reflection and dialogue at the front and centre, exemplified in her work at MIMA, Eastside Projects, Wysing Arts Centre and Outpost gallery.

I like the vibe of the things she creates, and the commitment she demonstrates to making colourful things resonate and sing, in a thoughtful and determined way. If I could, I'd travel to see her work more often as it's always curious and compelling.

Elinor Morgan, Photo courtesy of MIMA

Elinor Morgan is Head of Programme at MIMA, Middlesbrough Institute of Modern Art. Since 2008 she has curated residencies, exhibitions, public projects and education programmes across the UK working at organisations in Norwich, Cambridge, Birmingham and on independent projects in London. She has led and supported public art projects and developed freelance projects. She co-edited ‘The Constituent Museum’ (Valiz, 2018), a reader on how arts institutions might work differently with their publics. Elinor enjoys writing and editing essays, articles and reviews.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I have Type 1 Diabetes and a job which demands a lot of energy so I have needed to get smart at balancing my life with things that bring me joy and boost my energy. Talking with artists brings me life and stimulation so I make sure I build in lots of conversations, whether focused on specific projects or open-ended, into every month.

I read and listen to a lot of fiction and find the space of narratives soothing and stimulating. I am part of a small and powerful book group which brings me much joy – our meetings are relaxed and often hilarious – and I love reading things selected by others. Wednesday is Film Night with my partner George and we enjoying traversing film-geek terrain. Learning new things always makes my brain zing and I particularly enjoy mapping the arts against social and political contexts, so as well as voraciously gobbling historical and social podcasts and audio books, I am currently doing two evening classes: one on British art in between 1900 and 1950 and one on decolonising gardening histories.

With the increased screen-time and stasis of my life in Covid, I have needed to be outside a lot and I am very lucky to live by the sea. I have taken up sea swimming, which gives me a physical, mental and emotional hit of shock and bliss, and through this I have met so many wonderful women who are all drawn to the same activity for different reasons. I have been learning a lot about gardening and spent a lot of time digging, planting and growing both by myself and with others on a shared allotment and through volunteering at a magical place called Dark Star Plants. The longer cycles of gardening slow my brain down which is essential.

Wayward, Middlesbrough Winter Garden, 2019, Photo courtesy of MIMA, photograph by Hynes Photography

What are you working on right now?

Reopening MIMA, Middlesbrough Institute of Modern Art! I almost can’t think about this because it’s so overwhelmingly exciting. I have been longing for the day that we can welcome people to our beautiful galleries, Kitchen and Garden again – to see people interacting and to hear and smell the life breathed back into the building.

We’ll be opening with a jubilant exhibition with Sonia Boyce in which a large sculptural structure by Sonia acts as a vehicle for the work of Saelia Aparicio, Simeon Barclay, Anna Barham, Emma Bennett, Kev Howard, Lindiwe Matshikiza, Harold Offeh, Flora Parrott, Penny Payne, Alberta Whittle ad Kenizzi Yamalimbu as well as lots of works from the Middlesbrough Collection at MIMA. The structure is clad in wallpapers made by Sonia since the 90s and the exhibition also includes a newly-commissioned video that she made with skateboarders from Tees Valley-based collective Girls Skate North East and ukulele-playing skateboarders in Birmingham.

The skaters play in urban environments, using their bodies to understand space and architectural surfaces and you can see Sonia’s fascination with improvisation threading through all parts of the show and into this newest piece. The project was imagined with Eastside Projects and it’s a real gem. Last year we also managed to collect one of Sonia’s really important works: Devotional Wallpaper and Placards, 2008-2020, with support from Contemporary Art Society. This piece gathers the names of black British women involved in the music industry, proposed by many people since Sonia began the project in 2008. We’ll be showing this as part of the exhibition.

I’m also working on a big exhibition about the legacies of the production of synthetics in the Tees Valley for MIMA in Autumn of this year. It’s a complicated story with lots of tendrils into social histories, material sciences and ecological impacts. This includes new commissions with Katarina Zdjelar, Onya McCausland and Annie O’Donnell as well as lots of scientific and social history artefacts. The brilliant academic Esther Leslie is working with me as a critical thinker and advisor on the project and my colleague Lynne Hugill from the MIMA School of Art & Design is bringing lots of knowledge about new, non-toxic materials and circular economies in fashion.

Katie Schwab, All Our Own Work, 2018, Image courtesy of MIMA, Photo Hynes Photography

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your work? What do you care about?

People. It’s always about relationships and ethics. I want to do things that are meaningful to people and that create opportunities for others.

How has this last year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

I don’t know if I can answer this question yet. The first three words that I wrote down are:

Inequality Ecology Division

I believe that public art institutions must create the spaces and conditions for people to come together and make new understandings of the world. They should be places for imagining and enacting social change to creatively address our perils and crises. That’s why I do what I do.

Tom O’Sullivan and Joanne Tatham, A Proposal To Ask Where Does A Threshold Begin And End, 2017, Photo courtesy of MIMA 

What do you think should change in the arts and how can we actively contribute to bringing about this change?

Oh dear… so many things need to change in the arts. And of course, connected to this, so many things need to change in society. Actually, my experience of stepping outside of gallery and museum contexts is that we are normally further down the road on discussions that other sectors and sometimes in actions too. Life in Britain would be immeasurably improved by making art a central part of every education.

The main thing I object to in the art sector is empty rhetoric – the performative political statement that signals radical change and doesn’t shift the structures. It’s easy to say things and harder to really do them over many years with many people. To genuinely address access, equity and diversity in the arts we need to be making art embedded into every school environment and making educational and training opportunities that are accessible to people from all backgrounds. We need to be looking at long-term strategies to diversify work-forces and creatives: we should have our eyes on programmes with primary schools; on employment contracts; on how budgets are spent. We need a whole systems approach and we need different people in powerful positions.

I am particularly invested in and proud of three programmes at MIMA that I believe contribute to making change:

In 2019 we worked with the inimitable research group Black Artists & Modernism to audit the Middlesbrough Collection (with works from the 1870s to today) for contributions by artists of African, Caribbean, Asian and MENA Region descent who were born in, lived, worked or studied in the UK and to undertake close readings of work. With only 2% of the collection meeting these criteria, we’re sadly in line with the other collections across the UK audited by BAM. We wanted to start with deep research and statistics from which we could set clear targets for future work and with which we could build imaginative programmes to start a process of repair through new interpretations and the support, representation, and acquisition of artists of colour. Working with Ashleigh Barice, Sonia Boyce, Anjalie Dalal-Clayton and the BAM team has enabled us to change commitments and practices within MIMA.

Close Reading workshop with Black Artists and Modernism, courtesy of MIMA, photograph by Kingsley Hall

Our work with elders and their care-givers is really important to me. Through partnerships with social housing providers in the Tees Valley we connect artists with people living in residential care to develop creative programmes that are so joyful and that support social connectivity. Many groups have taken over the communal spaces where they live that are really well-equipped and often under-utilised by residents. The legacies of this programme have been incredible, with residents supported to set up constituted groups and gain funding to develop their own follow-on programmes.

Since 2017 we’ve worked with disability arts organisation DASH and with MAC and Wysing to develop a network of institutional support for Deaf and Disabled curators. It’s about supporting the development of creative people who haven’t had an opportunity to work on sustained projects with institutional resources and making space for their practices and voices through public programmes. It’s also about the institutions committing to anti-ableist approaches, learning and improving. The creative work that has come through this has been powerful and the learning has been intense and reciprocal. The network is about to grow and will support more disabled curators. I have loved working with others on this and found working with our associate curator Aidan Moesby incredibly insightful and valuable.

Fragile Earth, 2019, (Installation view), Image courtesy of MIMA, Photo Hynes Photography

Do you have a favourite exhibition/project/event that you have curated and if so, what makes it particularly special to you?

I have recently been feeling the deep loss of Donna Lynas, the late Director of Wysing Arts Centre, and as such have been reflecting on my time there. We did lots of unusual (understatement!) projects there and the wildest by far was the first Wysing music festival in 2010. I arrived just in time to support Donna and artist Andy Holden to realise the very ambitious festival of artist musicians playing across three stages, two of which were artworks in their own right. It was a scale of stress I’d never felt before, but ended with the most incredible feeling of elation as people experienced Wysing’s huge and rambling site and made new connections and friendships. The festival has continued ever since, taking many different forms, and I think it’s the perfect legacy of Donna’s visionary and ever-shifting artist-centred approach to running Wysing.

Working at Eastside Projects was another incredible adventure. Being there you are immersed in creative possibilities and I love how the gallery engages artists and thinks of the city as its material. Another project that meant a lot to me was Gowlett Peaks, a fleet of foot project I set up to present a series of solo shows and events above a pub in Peckham. The pub was run by an incredible duo – artist Flora Parrot and publican Jonny Henfrey– and I loved the feel of it. Running stuff above a pub is great fun and the audiences socialised and engaged with the work in a really comfortable relaxed way. It came at a really important time when I wanted to create more space for one-on-one conversations with artists.

The book I edited with others between 2016-18 fuelled my thinking and taught me a lot. It is a tome and the process was hard but having something like this behind me, and publishing the networks and conversations that are behind my work gave me confidence in what I do. I think of MIMA as a whole project in which everything is connected including the structures that underpin the creative work, so I won’t pull threads out of the tapestry here. It has been amazing to grow with the organisation and put down deep roots here that enable a different approach to time and a deeper set of reflections on the place.

The Constituent Museum: Constellations of Knowledge, Politics and Mediation: A Generator of Social Change (Hardback),
Authors/Editors: John Byrne, Elinor Morgan, November Paynter, Aida Sanchez de Serdio, Adela Zeleznik 

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial or creative relationship?

The word support is huge and hard to pin down. I hope that I create structures that help people to focus and develop something – an idea, an artwork, a piece of writing, a set of relationships – differently than they have previously. I hope I create space for their ideas and methodologies to come through. I hope that I work as a connector and broker. I hope I am transparent and generous. I hope that I challenge people and ask them difficult questions. I hope that I am there for people long-term. I love working over a long period with artists and getting to know what they’re interested in and what skills they have before diving into a big project. I work in a very context-specific way so it’s really important that people have opportunities to understand MIMA’s role and responsibilities and how they might contribute before they commit to working with us.

Mikhail Karikis, For Many Voices, 2020, (Installation view), Image courtesy of MIMA and the artist,Photo Hynes Photography

What risks have you taken in your career that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I have learnt everything by doing it and I’ve been really fortunate to be supported and trusted by those I have worked with. I’ve had to really stretch myself and struggle along the way. I’ve made loads of mistakes and done things in strange ways before figuring out how to do them better, and I have always tried to spend time reflecting by myself and listening to feedback from others.

It would be foolish and boring to imagine that I know what is going to happen with projects! It’s not about mapping every outcome but about setting up parameters for something to have a life beyond what I imagined possible. That’s the nature of collaboration and dialogue and striving to develop new ideas and work. My aim is to continually develop new skills to get better at supporting other people to do their best and most thoughtful work.

Otobong Nkanga, From Where I Stand, 2020, (Installation view), Image courtesy of MIMA, Photo Hynes Photography

Who or what inspires or lifts you up?

All of the artists, designers, writers, researchers and curators with whom I have the honour of working. The team at MIMA. I learn from people every single day. Working with Otobong Nkanga recently was amazing as her work gives so many prompts for thinking about structural inequalities and ecological crisis. I love the fact that her ideas find form through intricate, beautiful making and that she uses these processes to deal with cruelty and exploitation. Her works always have a proposal or proposition at their core.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Eastside Projects’ Extra Ordinary People associateship programme offers heaps of opportunities and support. DASH’s sessions for Disabled artists and creatives are super supportive and generous. Read a whole range of interviews with artists through MIMA’s Hearing From Artists series. G39 is an ace space for artists’ development in Cardiff. A few organisations have been holding virtual studio visits for artists over the past year, including MIMA and Wysing. The Artists’ Union England and a-n offer brilliant resources and advice for artists.

Chiara Camoni, Sisters, 2019, (Installation view), Image courtesy of MIMA, Photo Hynes Photography

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

Everything I know, I have learned from trying things out and from listening hard to a whole range of people. My tips are:

  • There are many routes. The art sector might look impenetrable but there are multiple art worlds and so many ways to be an artist or art worker.
  • Your peer group is everything – invest in the people who support and critique what you do. Meet and talk regularly wherever and however you can. If you don’t have these people yet, prioritise ways of seeking them out and connecting.
  • Do your research. Listen, watch, absorb and reflect. Make sure you know where and how you want your work to be experienced and seen.
  • Make personal connections with those you have an affinity with and be patient and persistent – if you think you have interests in common keep trying to have a chat. Don’t cold-call with a standard proposal as this approach won’t be respected.
  • Be kind and compassionate: I often think of David Foster Wallace’s graduation speech where he highlights how little we know about people when we make assumptions about them. You have no idea what the person in front of you in the supermarket queue is living with and experiencing.
  • Make your own party! Don’t wait for an invitation: initiate whatever you’re able to on whatever scale and invite others to be part of it and see/hear what you’ve done.

Follow Elinor on Instagram and Twitter @elnrmrgn @mimauseful and visit

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Creative Director: GAYLENE GOULD

Artist Zak Ové introduced me to Gaylene Gould in 2018, whilst we were working together on the exhibition Get Up Stand Up Now at Somerset House, London.

Gaylene was Head of Cinemas and Events at BFI Southbank at the time, and we met to discuss joint programming a public event, showcasing key films by Zak’s father, Horace Ové CBE. I was struck by Gaylene’s positivity and her warm, open, considerate, and grounded demeanour. I recall thinking that I wish I’d met her sooner.

I connected with Gaylene’s passionate belief in parity, equality, social justice, and her spirit of generosity combined with a can-do attitude. Curiously, unbeknown to me at the time, we were both ruminating quietly on new possibilities for our own creative practice and leadership responsibilities.

Since then, we have both taken a leap into the unknown, having left our senior roles in art institutions at roughly the same time to chart new territories and redefine our own contribution to the sector. We share a love of learning, of taking risks, a commitment to coaching, and of the power of making space for creativity and each other.

Gaylene Gould, Photo Nina J Robinson

Gaylene Gould is the Founder and Creative Director of The Space To Come which creates interactive art projects that aim to generously transform our connections to ourselves, each other, and the world. Her collaborative practice explores the healing and growth potential of sharing space, stories, ideas and knowledge.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I’ve carefully curated my cultural intake during the pandemic. The world is full of high drama right now so I’m imbibing intimate human stories, contemporary myth and ‘new world’ thinkers.  I was lucky enough to be on the BAFTA film jury this year so saw some wonderful films. It seems I’m not the only one drawn to the intimate and profound this year. I had my heart blown open by Chloe Zhao’s Oscar-tipped Nomadland, Lee Isaac Chung’s Minari and Darius Marder’s The Sound of Metal starring the finest actor of our generation IMO Riz Ahmed. After the rightful noise created by #BAFTAsowhite, it’s great to see East and South Asian film talent getting their due. Also, scaredy-cat that I am, I was so thankful for Remi Weekes British social-horror His House that I watched it twice.

My bedtime audio books gave me much needed perspective by offering contemporary versions of ancient myths. Hat tip goes to Monique Roffey’s The Mermaid of Black Conch, Hawaiian writer Kawai Strong Washburn’s Sharks In The Times of Saviours and Ben Okri’s The Freedom Artist.

And if it wasn’t for new-world philosopher Bayo Akomalafe I think I would have festered in a pit of despair. His online course, which took place through the darkest days of the pandemic, helped me grasp the transformative potential of these global ‘cracks’ and shifts. His work reminds that a truly sustainable new world will emerge from these places.

Listening to Ourselves, Curtis & Curtis, Photo Nina J Robinson

What are you working on right now?

I have just launched my creative (ad)venture The Space To Come, a company that tests ways art can connect, heal, and transform our relationships to ourselves and each other. TSTC brings together two of my life-long practices – coaching and curation. I’m curious how artists, healers and the public can co-create sensitive spaces to reflect, repair and reimagine new relationships.

I’ve been cultivating this practice for a few years but, given the crumbling state of the old world and the urgency to create a new one, the time is now for this work. Sometimes the “space” can be an interactive art project, a participatory workshop or a residency within a community. For instance, we’re about to curate a series of conversation dinners between the people of Newcastle-Under-Lyme for Appetite to encourage more intimate and compassionate connections. Meanwhile we’re developing a live programme with the Arnolfini gallery that will invite “felt-sense” experiences of artworks inspired by my radio 4 documentary Transcendence How Can I Feel Art Again?

Essentially our projects seek to use artistic forms to practice compassion and deepen our emotional intelligence.

Listening to Ourselves, Gaylene & Gaylene, Photo Nina J Robinson

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your work? What do you care about?

I believe there is a desperate need for compassionate societies. Compassion is more than a fluffy add-on. It is kindness in response to suffering. If stitched into our personal and social relations, compassion can radically transform how we approach ourselves and each other. Violence is a common response to unacknowledged suffering. If we can find transformative ways to first acknowledge that there is suffering, including our own, then there might be the possibility for collective renewal. Arts’ fascination with the unresolved, the search for beauty where none should exist, the spotlight on our flawed fragility, is a great starting point.

How has this last year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

Like many others, this past year has been deeply exposing. The removal of distracting temptations while living so closely with death has been disarming. I suppose we have now experienced what day to day life is like for much of the world.  I’m grieving, for the unnecessary deaths, the result of an uncompassionate leadership, while buoyed by the voices of resistance that are coalescing.   I am now clear that the Old World, the one built principally on shame, fear, prejudice and greed, is crumbling and it's time for a new one to emerge.

When I launched The Space To Come I felt like I was coming out. I’ve always felt at odds with the makeup of the world and my constant and failed attempts to fit in. My work is now about actively cultivating the values - awareness, compassion, connection, generosity - that could create a new foundation from which to build afresh – ideally before we terraform Mars.

Listening to Ourselves, Steve & Steve, Photo Nina J Robinson

What do you think should change in the arts and how can we actively contribute to bringing about this change?

A new world founded on new principles would allow for new art to flourish. I dream of a time when the study of our emotional, ancestral, and imaginative intelligence comes before the study of stuff. Imagine if we were taught to listen and connect in healing ways, be comfortable with vulnerability, learn how to support wider ecologies. Art would then take a different place in society.

Art could then be woven into the fabric of our lives rather than be viewed as “content” or investment. Artists would be respected as the chroniclers, matchmakers, builders, healers, truth-sayers, doulas and undertakers that they are. A painting could take our breath away in aisle 4 of Aldi and we could be served an operetta on the bus home. Spoken word poets would open PMQ’s and a dance-off would close the day. Our schools would let children lie on their backs and tell stories as well as stick to the lines of a book.  Amanda Gorman’s poem at Biden’s inauguration encapsulated so much more than hours of speeches ever could. She helped us collectively feel, release, and emotionally process an extraordinary period of our lives. And that’s the whole point of art.

We can help by releasing art into the wild, setting it free from the hallowed halls and allowing it to inspire more expansive and urgent conversations between us.

Do you have a favourite exhibition/project/event that you have curated and if so, what makes it particularly special to you?

The Space to Come’s first online project Listening to Ourselves feels like the foundation to the work we will explore here. It’s an audio-visual project that combines photographs of people, lockdown friends in fact, seemingly in conversation with themselves. Two soundtracks accompany the images. One is a new soundscape with suggestions of how the music can be used to inspire a more intentional conversation with yourself. An intentional conversation is a way to explore our own in-the-moment thinking. It’s an experiment in developing self-awareness or self-befriending. The second audio piece is a recording of me having such a conversation.

The pieces were developed and created with photographer Nina Robinson and Gianmaria Givanni/ANNN who is an architect and a sonic spatial composer. The piece invites people to try the exercise then send back an audio response which we will weave into a new audio piece.

Listening to Ourselves explores all my key inquiries. How might we build more intentional connections with ourselves and others? How might artistic practices inspire more instinctive responses? And how might we bring together disparate voices to create new, aware communities?

This work may seem like an exercise in self-care, and while that might be an affect, the roots are social and political. It’s about testing out a new basis for new types of relationships. We’ll need those in the new world.

Listening to Ourselves, Beki & Beki, Photo Nina J Robinson 

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial or creative relationship?

This practice offers all collaborators - artists, healers, and the public - the opportunity to share something we haven’t shared before in a new way. With The Solace Salons, I brought together coach/therapist Jackee Holder, creative researcher Dr Sindi Gordon and myself with choreographer Freddie Opoku Addaie, comic John Simmit and composer and visual artist Liz Gre. Together we devised a new form of ‘performance workshop’ where the stories explored were brought by the participants. This way of working requires the artistic collaborators and the participants to be courageous and vulnerable. This is a nascent process. It’s felt. We must be kind to ourselves and each other as things won’t necessarily work in the way we imagined. It also forces us to be alive to what is actually unfolding.

What risks have you taken in your career that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

Being the youngest child I was a born risk taker. I often move before I have anything fully worked out. I recently left my job as Head of BFI Southbank in order to decolonise my career in a sense. I wanted to move past a certain kind of ‘Old World’ idea of linear progress and development. This led to the formation of The Space To Come. The trouble is when I try and explain the project, many don’t understand it! So, this might be a risk that doesn’t go so well. But I am learning the most fundamental lessons of my life so far such as inquiries are not outcomes. Inquiries are to be explored which means I need the courage to step off the beaten path and then to cultivate the attention required to pick my way through unbeaten territory. If I want to create a new way of living I must first prepare to let go of everything.

Mission to the Land of Misplaced Memories, 2014, Gaylene Gould / dubmorphology, Tate Britain

Who or what inspires or lifts you up?

Conversations that allow us to say things or reveal parts of ourselves that we wouldn’t usually. Within each of us there is a library of experiences and emotional complexities.  Conversations with friends, family, shop assistants, the person in front of in the coffee queue….Satiating my salacious interest in people revives me. My broader passion in stories and art stems from this desire for human understanding and a deeper awareness.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Learn to have really great conversations with yourselves and others. Have rigorous conversations with yourselves that help you constantly review your held positions. Soothe your internal critic by practising Kristen Neff’s self-compassion exercises so you can hear your quieter voices. Practise spending time in unbeaten territory alone - even if it’s simply walking down streets you don’t recognise. Reveal your vulnerabilities to people then ask them kind, expansive questions in return. There are many resources that can help with craft but I think the work of creation is about activating a curiosity and befriending your own vulnerabilities.

Well Fed curated conversation dinner event, Photo Nina J Robinson

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

The Arts (capital A) is in a very contentious place. The growing commercial pressures can be distorting and the funded sector can be restricting and protectionist. Artists and cultural workers interested in new, expansive territories can find themselves between a rock and a hard place. Understanding the operating systems of these worlds whilst articulating and cleaving to your own value base seems particularly critical right now. Lucky for us, a brave new world is coming so it’s time to invent more values-led, compassionate spaces to exist in.

Follow Gaylene on Twitter @gaylene_g Instagram @gaylenegould / @thespacetocome or visit / 


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Gallerist Paul Hedge

Gallerist Interview: PAUL HEDGE

Paul Hedge is the co-owner and founder of Hales gallery, located in London and New York.

Over the last three decades he has skillfully ridden the relentless waves of change in the art world.

As an evangelical arts enthusiast, he has an irresistible way of communicating the transformative power of art. He is deeply curious and has developed an encyclopedic knowledge of artists, movements and the cultural contexts that have shaped them. He is a warm, generous host, and captivating storyteller.

In every exchange, Paul’s genuine love and appreciation of the artists he works with is evident. He is truly delighted when anybody connects with the artists and artworks he shines a light on.

I appreciate Paul's eye, his programme and that he sees opportunities where others see obstacles. I have so appreciated his generosity, time and support over the years.

Paul Hedge, at Hales London, 2017. Photography by Charlie Littlewood

Paul Hedge was born in Stevenage New Town in 1961 and is the Co-Owner/Founder, Hales (London/New York). He studied Fine Art at Goldsmiths college in the early 1980s, gaining a first-class hons degree. He was a co-founder of the short lived but innovative Scratch Gallery, one of the first pioneering, artist led spaces in London, located in New Cross.

In 1992, after art school and nine years working as a postman, Hedge, along with his business partner Paul Maslin, opened Hales. The gallery produced numerous influential shows in the 1990s with artists including Jake and Dinos Chapman, Mike Nelson, Hew Locke, Sarah Jones, Richard Woods, Hans op de Beeck and Tomoko Takahashi. In 2004 Hales relocated to The Tea Building, a former warehouse space at the heart of in London’s Shoreditch, a site that the gallery occupies till today. In 2016 Hales, opened a gallery space in New York’s Lower East Side, relocating in 2018 to the district of Chelsea.

Today, the gallery represents a wide array of international artists and artists estates and is a regular on the international art fair circuit.

During his time in the art world, Paul Hedge has served on the boards of The Contemporary Art Society and The Society of London Art Dealers. He has lectured extensively and has acted as an advisor to artists and collectors.

Paul Hedge and Paul Maslin, Deptford, London,1996

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I generally take a very positive approach to anything and everything. Enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think”. If I ever had the desire to have a tattoo then this quote would be at the centre of it!

The Specials version of this 1949 classic penned by Herb Magidson with music by Carl Sigman is a tune I have been returning to (among many other things) for a headphone moment over this lockdown. It’s a cheerful number with a simple message.

Of course, I understand that it is not possible to enjoy everything in life, (I too have my dark nights of the soul) but I generally believe that good things can be drawn from seemingly very unpromising moments and this view is supported by my experience. This simple song drives me on. I say to myself, “get on with your mission Paul, and do it with cheer and good grace!”.

I’m currently reading a very eclectic group of books which I’m dipping in and out of. I have been reading  material associated with the curator Lawrence Alloway’s exhibition, Situation which took place at the RBA galleries in 1960.It is quite an important show for those of us interested in the development of abstract painting in Britain.

There is so much to know…it never stops!

My 83-year-old mum sends me a bible verse each day which I look at first thing in the morning. The bible is quite a read!! One day she might send me bloodshed and slaughter and the next day is all peace and love!

Other than that, I’m reading gardening books. I’m currently getting my head around garden designer Nigel Dunnett’s essential guide to naturalistic planting. It’s very engaging! The Sheffield botanists are making all of the big leaps forward.

Rachael Champion, Interstate 495 is a Terminal Moraine, 8 September - 13 October 2018, Photo by JSP Art Photography

What are you working on right now?

I have become aware that there is an audience for what I have to say about my thirty years working as a dealer in the art world. It’s not been a predictable journey and more of a roller-coaster of events than anything else. I think my working-class background makes me a rare beast among art dealers and so as a consequence, I have been writing about my experiences with the aim of encouraging others. A book maybe??

I have also latterly discovered Instagram. I was never very keen on social media but I have inadvertently developed my own idiosyncratic diary style of presenting an image with a related short text each day. It’s a (sort of) analogue approach to the digital world and runs quite separately to Hales social media. I have made it what I want it to be and I am comfortable with that. It’s quite nice to be able to present contemporary art in the context of other things. Cooking, gardening, studio pottery, interiors, in fact anything is fair game I think.

Hew Locke, Where Lies the Land, Hales London, 26 September – 9 November 2019, Photo by Anna Arca

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to the gallery? What do you care about?

Most commercial art galleries are a labour of love and that is how we have always run Hales. I personally care about it! Every detail! All of it!

I talk about Hales in the plural as we are a very tight knit team. There is much more to Hales than me. We like each other and we enjoy working together. Over the course of my career, I have seen the London scene grow from punk-style DIY into a highly competitive capitalist driven marketplace. I often ask myself how somebody with essentially socialist values should behave in the face of that?

Simply expressed, I would sum up my response in this way: Be aspirational, be honest, be efficient and be kind!

Paul Hedge and Trenton Doyle Hancock at Mass MoCA, 2019

How has this last year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

Anyone who says they have breezed through the time of Covid is not being entirely truthful.

The pandemic has put the cat among the pigeons and has posed an existential threat to an art world reliant on travel and gatherings. I have been looking at my personal carbon footprint. It is much bigger than I would like. I am thinking more carefully about how I can do my job in the face of possible catastrophic climate change. It is certainly making me rethink.

This quiet period of reflection has also been good in regard to re-thinking the positioning of the artists and estates that Hales works with. I would like to be able to say that we (at Hales) have shone a light upon artists and placed them within a context that people can understand and enjoy. Part of my job is to shine that light as brightly as possible!

What do you enjoy the most about running a commercial gallery?

When Hales opened in 1992, we had little cash but we decided that above all, we wished to avoid any reliance upon conventional sources of funding. Essentially, we felt that the freedom afforded us by being able to make decisions independently of political interference or dictates from on high would be a preferable route to take.

At the time this meant that we earned our livings from the frothing of cappuccino, the cooking of pasta dishes and the preparation of sandwiches. In essence, we ran a café to fund exhibitions in our gallery. It was extremely hard work but gave us a great deal of autonomy.

The café is no more but it served us well. It gave Hales time to get off the ground and we continue to reap the rewards of that decision made way back then. I am proud about the manner in which we began our venture and I enjoyed my role as chef/curator/dealer for many of those years. However, I am also glad that our success allowed me to focus on the art and I am eternally grateful that I no longer have to rely on my culinary skills in order to run a dynamic gallery.

What do you feel proud of?

The fact that Hales has been an enterprise of resourcefulness and innovation and continues to thrive as a business after thirty years. Often the most artistically adventurous galleries leave the business structures to one side and collapse because of a lack of attention to the fiscal basics. The reverse is also true. I am proud of the balancing act that we have performed and continue to do so. I think that we have changed the course of many artists careers for the better. We may even have contributed to an understanding of art history is some small way. I am personally proud that I was able to progress from my former job as a postman and hold it together sufficiently to develop a vision for Hales which in turn led to where we are today.

Maja Ruznic, Name of the Voice, 10 September - 24 October 2020, Hales London

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

All I can say on the matter is that I have to fall in love and be obsessed with the work initially. I do not see any way to avoid this personally. In reality, myself and the two directors, Sasha Gomeniuk and Stuart Morrison, bring together our discoveries and we think things through together. Decisions are never made lightly.

Paul Hedge with Basil Beattie, Frieze London 2019

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

Our job as a gallery (at least a very simplified version) is to:

a) get excited about artists ourselves

b) present and contextualise their works along with our findings to others

c) encourage contagion and financial exchange

It sounds straightforward but it really isn’t easy!

Ask yourself, who are the people who make up the audience for the art shown at a commercial gallery? Are they the clients of the gallery?....or does the gallery have a responsibility to whoever decides to walk in on any given day? Or both? Again, ask yourself, are the works on show for the sole purpose of sales? or are commercial galleries a free service provided for the public? In my view, a gallery run for profit (which benefits both the artist and gallery team alike has unknowingly agreed to partaking in an extraordinary feat of dexterity and balance. As my uncle (who worked as an electrician for British rail all his life) once asked me “are you a shop, a showroom or a museum?”

I am still puzzling over that question!

Carolee Schneemann, More Wrong Things, 2017, Hales London

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

I think embarking on a career in art can be likened to leaping from an aircraft without the requisite understanding of how a parachute operates. Artists require that sort of freedom but it certainly has its dangers! Galleries try to provide a means of safe landing. Commercial galleries do much more than enact financial transactions but it is impossible to pin point exactly what will be needed for each career at any given time.

The best relationships between galleries and artists are ones of an unspoken understanding. Having said that, often the most direct support a gallery can provide for the artists is money. Money = least in theory!

Paul Hedge and Omar Ba at Omar's Supernova Exhibition, Hales London, 2017

How do you go about building a market for an artist?

This is the area of a gallery’s work I feel most able to contribute something meaningful to.

I think about this night and day…sometimes literally night and day (especially during lockdown)! I can only skim the surface with my answer here. I would like to supply you with a more nuanced reply, but it would run to pages of text…another time maybe?

Here are the basics. It is clear to me that art history has been written from a particular perspective which is not terribly sympathetic to many of the things and the art I care about and hold dear. Artists are often over looked and unjustly forgotten. It really doesn’t matter at what point in their careers that this might take place. Their work is neglected for a reason but it is rarely because it isn’t good or important. Race, gender, class are all issues that Hales has been concerned with since its inception and are often (but not exclusively) reasons for a historical re-assessment, re-analysis and finally re-presentation.

I often ask myself, why has this career been overlooked? What has this artist done that is important? What makes them stand out? Which particular moments are most relevant to a contemporary debate?...and finally, how can we at Hales present this in a dynamic way so that a wider audience can understand its relevance?

Contemporary art dealing is as much about providing an interesting narrative that runs parallel with an understanding of the work itself. Timing is also key. Often younger artists require more direct attention. A helpful word at the right moment can go a long way to progressing a career! In mid-career, artists need to have more control over their output. A gallery can help by assisting the artist to prioritize where their work will be best placed for the longer term.

Omar Ba, Supernova, 2017, Hales, London

What risks have you taken that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

It seems to me that entering into anything at all from the position of strength is unlikely to be a big risk. If you have pots of money and gamble with 5% of it then the risk is small and the result of losing is not likely to inflict irreparable damage. Not surprisingly, things are often weighted in favour of those with substantial resources to draw upon. What does one do in the face of such competition?

At almost every stage of developing Hales we have had to take some highly risky decisions, but at each juncture I draw upon our togetherness and the resourceful attitude we have developed as we find a way to deal with the problems. Taking risks has led to many successes and it has undoubtedly made us stronger and taken us to new heights.

Virginia Jaramillo, Conflux, 10 September - 31 October, Hales New York, Photo by JSP Art Photography

What new strategies are you trying or considering in the current climate? How will you measure success?

In my lifetime, this has been the first global pandemic that I have faced (thank goodness). It is hard to know what to do in the face of it, except talk with my colleagues and artists regularly and try to put what we come up with into practice.

The art world will inevitably learn to live with Covid but it is likely to trigger a root and branch reassessment of our current business practices and usher in a new way of doing things.

This presents opportunity. I like to think that the Hales team is independently minded enough to be at the forefront of that innovation and also smart enough to recognise the breakthrough’s made by others which can be adopted to improve our own lot.

Sunil Gupta, Christopher Street, 30 April - 1 June 2019, Hales New York, Photo by JSP Art Photography

What insight from your experience in the art world would you like to share to empower others?

It goes full circle to your very first question…and my reply “Enjoy yourself, it’s later than you think”!

Try and take pleasure in what you do at every stage. Granted, sometimes it isn’t easy. It takes perseverance. Remember to take time to reflect on your achievements whilst simultaneously attempting to shape the future.

I often think to myself, how can I begin to effect change for good with the resources I have available right here right now? This approach has helped me immeasurably throughout my career.



Follow Paul on Instagram @_paul_hedge_ @halesgallery and visit the gallery website Hales Gallery

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Curator interview: MATTHIEU LELIÈVRE

I first met the dynamic art historian and curator Matthieu Lelièvre when we found ourselves stationed in neighbouring gallery booths at an art fair in Basel in 2009. I was representing Ceri Hand Gallery alongside my wonderful Gallery Manager Lucy Johnston. Matthieu was representing Hamish Morrison Galerie, alongside the lovely and charming Founding Director Hamish.

We quickly discovered that we all bonded over a serious commitment to our artists and the hope and joy they bring to our lives, whilst sharing a gleefully devilish sense of humour. Our squawks of delight in the banal certainly helped break the waves of inevitable crushing tedium and paranoia experienced intermittently during the run of the fair.

I kept in touch ever since, visiting Matthieu in Berlin and Paris, following his intrepid adventures in the artworld and enjoying his programming immensely. We continue to connect over a shared love of visceral, darkly playful interdisciplinary artworks and working with artists who challenge perception and societies norms.

I admire the pace that Matthieu works at and enjoy his ability to consistently conjure something from nothing. I connect with his grit and determination to effect positive change for artists and audiences. His willpower and delight in decolonising the institution and engaging a more diverse range of creatives and audiences in a collaborative dialogue is much needed right now.

I also love our conversations. His generosity in sharing and exchanging knowledge and skills is the kind of expansive thinking and community building attitude I believe wholeheartedly in. I am always keen to know what he does next and love seeing him lifting others up wherever he goes.

Matthieu Lelièvre, Copyright E Vion-Delphin, Artwork by Jean Jullien

Matthieu Lelièvre is an art historian and independent curator for contemporary art. Since 2018 he has served as Artistic Advisor at Contemporary Art Museum in Lyon (macLYON), developing a programme dedicated to international emerging artists and international relations. Simultaneously, as a writer and an independent curator, he is currently developing several exhibitions, performances and workshops with artists and organisations in Brazil, Italy and Tunisia.

Previous experience ranges from curator and head of collections for museums and galleries such as the Musée des Arts Décoratifs, independent foundations and commercial galleries, including Galerie Thaddaeus Ropac In Paris and Hamish Morrison Galerie in Berlin.

From 2016 to 2018 he joined a private foundation as its Artistic Director to build the prefiguration of its artistic and artist residency program, while initiating a collaboration with the Fine Arts Museum of Orléans, developing several exhibition’s projects of emerging artists in dialogue with the museum’s collection and the city’s history. In 2019, he joined the Palais de Tokyo to co-curate the 15th Lyon Biennale Where waters come together with other waters.

Matthieu graduated from a MA in Museum Studies at the Ecole du Louvre and a MA in art conservation at the French Institut National du Patrimoine and has served on several boards and juries.

What are you doing, reading, watching, or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

It is a very good question! It is very important for me to constantly discover new things and as it is impossible to attend to concerts, exhibitions, meet new people, I really had to question myself on how to keep learning and discovering in this restrictive context, especially now that everything is and must be online. So, I subscribed to several newspapers and I gave myself some challenges like learning Russian and reconnecting with a love from my youth: video games. It gave me of course the opportunity to dig even deeper the subjects I am working on.

Jasmina Cibic, « The Gift », 2019, 3 channel video, Courtesy of the artist

What are you working on right now?

A lot of different projects. For the Contemporary Art Museum in Lyon, which I accompany as an artistic advisor, I am still working on the exhibitions we opened last October, and I prepare some new projects, for example the first solo show in France of London based Slovenian artist Jasmina Cibic, or later solo show of Jesper Just and Mary Sibande in 2022.

Simultaneously I am working with a Rio-de-Janeiro based foundation, InclusArtiz, developing a residency program for Brazilian artists at the MADRE in Naples, Italy, and we should start the program next fall if everything is going as planned.

Also, I am working on several projects with the Tunisian art scene, work I have been developing for some time now. Next spring should open a solo show of Thameur Mejri at the B7L9, the art centre of the Kamel Lazaar Foundation in Tunis.

How has this year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

The purpose of a museum today. At the Contemporary Art Museum in Lyon, I am accompanying the institution to develop some ideas and values, thinking around the museum's role in society, questioning the established standards of our programmes, for example thinking of ways to co-create with new publics. Questioning the process is a never-ending job which is also fascinating because the pandemic really pushes us to renew the practices. I have worked for different structures including teaching and working with the art market. These past months have just reinforced my desire to have a curatorial practice with can help society opening its mind, based on a social dialogue. Taking the opportunity as a producer of content to defend some values and causes. In three words: to be useful.

Edi Dubien, macLYON, 2020, Copyright Blaise Adilon

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions you have curated and why?

The most recent one which opened this autumn at museum of contemporary art, Lyon, in France. Man of a Thousand Natures is the first museum solo exhibition of an extraordinary self-taught artist named Edi Dubien. There is a lot of happiness and pride in this exhibition. Edi Dubien, through a marvellous series of drawings and sculptures shares his thoughts and experiences about an abusive childhood, a beautiful and constructive vision of Nature and some fierce messages about gender transition. In this context, we are working with fantastic people like Eva Hayward a writer and a faculty member of the Department of Gender and Women Studies at the University of Arizona, and sociologists and activists defending the cause of trans and intersex children and teenagers.

Beside presenting extraordinary artworks to the public and a beautiful show, the exhibition and its program serve a strong and progressive purpose which turns the museum into a platform of discussion and exchange but also brings consciousness and give voice to trans and intersex people. So, my pride comes from the fact that we succeed in delivering both at the same time a marvellous exhibition and a strong and useful message.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition? What would you hope that people experience and learn from experiencing one of your creative outputs?

Serving the artist in spreading his/her message. Helping young artists finding their audience and helping them in the process of professionalisation. When I open an exhibition, I don't feel excited because I receive feedback that it is “beautiful”, but I am when I am told that it is interesting, challenging and that the show raises questions in the mind of its spectators. In that way I think of the spectator as an actor of the exhibition. I identified several topics and social issues I feel directly concerned by and I am doing my best to be useful, being a voice or an ally to these causes I consider to be important to defend. I don’t believe that art should necessarily “bring people together” I think it should open minds, bring awareness and self-consciousness. Give a space of expression and affirmation. That is why I am very attentive to work with women, LGBTQI+ and diversity, racial and gender...But working in public institutions forces us to work on other subjects, less personal for the sake of the diversity and the spectrum of the audience. That is why I love the opportunity of co-curating and collaborating with other professionals.

Thameur Mejri, Walking Target, 2020/21, Courtesy Galerie Selma Feriani

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

The good side of having worked in commercial art galleries helped me to question and find my role in the chain between accompanying the artist being an artist, helping him/her developing their project, finding their audience, promoting it, placing the works in private and public collections, and helping them getting the attention from curators and press. Even anticipating the questions of the future like its conservation once in the collections. That range of experience gave me a lot of different skills to work with an artist during all the steps of their professional life. At the same time, working for commercial galleries, I was not interested in the process of selling but rather helping the artist building their career, so now, even as a museum curator, I am always paying attention to the global, not just getting a work done for the purpose of the show, but helping the artist's process, to think, anticipate, produce, and place his/her work. I develop also quite often a very strong connection with the artists I work with, always remaining if not a friend, at least an advisor, a collaborator and sometime a mentor, connecting, writing for them. As I am working on several precise topics, the road does not end once the show is opened.

What risks have you taken in your career that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

The good thing is that, with the right attitude, learning from your mistakes can bring so much more, than the damages or pain caused by the actual mistakes. There are not so many things I would have done differently because they brought me where I am today. That will sound cheesy, but I think that in a career the biggest risk is to not take risks. And if you have regrets, you are also learning to use this consciousness to adapt your choices and find more energy to move and act. For me I could give the example of having trusted at some point the wrong people, but I learned so much from that, that I really cherish the lessons. I learned for instance more about the reasons why I am doing this job, and how art can serve a bigger purpose in our societies.

What was the last artwork you purchased and why?

During the lock-down Paul Pretzer, a fantastic painter I worked with in Berlin, 10 years ago and who is quietly and beautifully developing his career in Spain yet remaining at the same time very true to his aesthetic, posted a picture of an artwork on Instagram. I asked him about the story behind the painting, the price, I considered it for ten seconds, and I jumped in. I had the feeling that it could help him, but also... it helped me. Literally cheering up, (it's a very funny and cute painting...) and gave me back the feeling that despite the distance, art keeps people close to each other.  During the COVID-19 crises many artists are severely impacted by the reduction of possibilities, cancellation of residencies and exhibitions as well as the slowing down of the sales in the galleries.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Mostly to care about the people and to build strong connections. On the contrary of some romantic idea, Artist as a profession is not a job you do alone.

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

I'd like to address mostly to people who might think that working in the arts is not for them. Mostly people who hear about it but have the feeling this is a world they do not belong to. I want to say that their lives, their experience, and vision is probably going to serve a bigger purpose and help other people.

Follow Matthieu on Instagram @matthieu_lelievre and Twitter @matthlelievre  

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Producer Interview: ZERRITHA BROWN

I was introduced to the inspiring change-maker Zerritha Brown by Dhikshana Pering, Head of Engagement and Skills at Somerset House.

I was immediately struck by Zerritha's creative vision, her genuine desire to create opportunities for others and to platform the contribution of creative pioneers. She has a passion and commitment to effecting long-lasting social change through care, collaboration and co-production. She is warm, engaging, yet charmingly humble and self-effacing, which is admirable given her powerhouse credentials.

Zerritha hatches dynamic projects with creatives and audiences, rooting them in the community and contexts in which they are conceived, and they resonate way beyond their delivery date. She is a master of taking people with her on a wild and wonderful journey of creative exploration, guaranteeing outcomes that creatives, communities and global audiences connect with.

Zerritha Brown, Photo Roy Mehta 

Zerritha Brown is a Cultural Producer, Arts Manager and Leader with 20 years’ experience in community and participatory arts and large scale events. Over the last 10 years she has led on culture for Brent Council, most recently leading the production of the Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home digital archive and online festival, which captured the borough's reggae history through community stories, as well as the Windrush 70 exhibition, a heritage project co-produced with the community to celebrate the contributions of the Windrush community in Brent.

Her previous roles at Brent include Cultural Operations Manager responsible for the artistic and operational management of the new £10m flagship library, museum and cultural centre and London 2012 Manager for Brent responsible for the development of the borough's Cultural Olympiad programme and implementing the 2012 Olympic torch relay route and community engagement activations.

A Clore Leadership Programme Alumni, she is passionate about equality and access and committed to creating deep and meaningful engagement which effects lasting change.

Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home, Digital Archive Launch at Jamaican High Commission February 2020, Photo c/o Brent Council

What are you doing, reading, watching, or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

I love listening to music, it nourishes my soul and keeps me positive. Reggae music, house and garage and cheesy 80's classic, all take me to happy places, connecting me to my youth, friends and family.

No Bass Like Home Online Festival, General Levy behind the scenes, November 2020, Image Credit Brent 2020

What are you working on right now?

Leading on the legacy of Brent's London Borough Culture, embedding culture across the organisation and continuing to build a cultural coalition across the council, with partners and the wider community.

Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home Bass Rewind Engagement Event, November 2019, Image c/o Zerritha Brown

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I am passionate about communities, representation and inclusion and I’m committed to creating deep and meaningful engagement which effects lasting change. I love uncovering hidden histories and working with the community to create an artistic response. Over the last few years my practice has been focused on documenting black British history in Brent through the Windrush 70 exhibition and most recently the Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home digital reggae archive and online festival. At the heart of both projects was building meaningful relationships, embedding the projects in the community whilst connecting with nationally and international audiences.

Windrush 70: Brent’s Pioneering Generation exhibition 2018, Display case with original British Trinidad and Tobago Passports
and first edition copy of the Lonely Londoners by Sam Selvon,
Photo ℅ Brent Museum and Archive

How have the events over the last year influenced your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

The pandemic has been devastating on many counts for everyone, but there has been some chinks of’s brought out a sense of community and forced us to slowdown and take stock of the things that are important and drive us. Coming out of this, I think community, collaboration and well-being will be really important in the Covid19 recovery and the arts and culture are well placed to support this.

What do you think should change in the arts and how can we actively contribute to bringing about this change?

Throughout the multiple lock-downs we have seen people gravitate to culture, whether that be reading, singing, knitting or engaging with online content.

I think this demonstrates the need for culture but that also it comes in different shapes and forms and approaches. The future of the sector should use this an opportunity to look at place based culture so that we are truly creating experience which are representative and connect with wider audiences.

Of course representation and inclusion is also a priority. More opportunities for young producers, curators, artists to enter and progress in the sector, development and mentoring as well as representation at every level of the organisation, not just entry level but mid career and managers.

Windrush 70: Brent’s Pioneering Windrush Generation Exhibition, 2018, Intro panel, Photo ℅ Brent Museum and Archive

Do you have a favourite exhibition/project/event that you have curated and if so,
what makes it particularly special to you?

The Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home project was both a professional and personal journey for me. My father is one of the Trojan Records session musicians who came to the UK in the early 70's to promote reggae music and toured with many of the reggae greats including Dave and Ansell Collins, the Cimerons band and Jimmy Cliff so I grew up in reggae. No Bass Like Home sought to capture the reggae history of Brent which was home to labels such as Trojan Records, Jetstar as well as artists Janet Kay, General Levy to name a few.

This is a history that the reggae community know but outside of this it isn’t well documented.

This created a platform for unheard stories which as well as being on Spotify will now have permanent home in the boroughs archive to preserve the reggae history.

My highlight however was leading the creative vision for the No Bass Like Home Online festival, a 7 hour festival curated by Seani  streamed from Brent, Jamaica and Florida celebrating the borough as a powerhouse of production and distribution for reggae and black British music. As well as profiling local and international artists, it was important to me that the festival featured interviews from the community and pioneer artists who were integral to the reggae movement.  The stream has received over 100k online views and I’m absolutely thrilled that London Live will be airing it throughout February for Reggae Month. Having a dedicated reggae show on prime time TV is unheard of so I’m incredibly proud to have the opportunity to bring the boroughs rich reggae history to a wider audience.

Windrush 70: Brent’s Pioneering Generation exhibition 2018, Installation View, Photo ℅ Brent Museum and Archive

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

Creative freedom to create an artistic response, but I provide support and knowledge where needed. I act as an enabler, brokering relationships with other artists and the wider community and facilitating creative conversations.

What risks have you taken in your career that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I've made programming decisions which haven’t quite landed right and led to poor audience engagement. But I learnt from this that you need a strong marketing and communications strategy, thinking outside the the conventional methods but also developing trust and credibility with your audiences.

Brent 2020 No Bass Like Home Online Stream, Cimarons Band behind the scenes, November 2020 Image Credit, Brent 2020

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

It’s a great sector to be part of. People are genuinely passionate about creating work which engages, excites, sparks debate and encourages conversation.

My top tip would be to build your networks, both support and professional as they will be an invaluable support.

Follow Zerritha on Twitter @ZeeBrown50

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Curator interview: KATHLEEN SORIANO

I first met the wonderful Curator and TV presenter Kathleen Soriano on a group excursion to China in 2007. The trip was an international exchange organised by the British Council for UK Curators and Directors to learn and develop new connections and potential partnerships.

It was an extraordinary 10 days, spent with an amazing, inspiring range of leaders, and together we asked our gracious creative hosts curious questions, shared a diverse range of experiences and reflected together. I am delighted that so many of the group remain firm friends to this day.

I was struck by Kathleen's wide ranging knowledge and energy, her sense of humour and keen ability to cut through any nonsense. (I was also thrilled to learn that Kathleen's contribution to a Karaoke night involved performing Flamenco - cementing that she was my kind of woman).

I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversations ever since, finding our exchanges nurturing and enriching. If I was ever in need of an honest take on a creative or leadership challenge, Kathleen would be one of the first people I'd reach out to. I am also in no doubt that I am one of many (particularly women) that would call on her for sage, frank advice.

Kathleen is generous, playful and astute, deeply committed to artists and the power of creativity and culture. She is a creative polymath and able to weave the historical and contemporary together seamlessly, whether through directing, curating, writing, broadcasting or presenting. She is full of light and a real tour de force.

Kathleen Soriano in the Royal Academy of Arts’ Main Galleries, London

Kathleen Soriano began her career at the Royal Academy of Arts over 35 years ago. In 1989 she joined the National Portrait Gallery, where as Director of Exhibitions & Collections she was also responsible for national and international programmes. In 2004 she became one of the first cohort of Clore Leadership Fellows, working at the South Bank Centre and the Art Gallery of New South Wales, Sydney. In February 2006 she became Director of Compton Verney Art Gallery, Warwickshire. January 2009 saw her appointed Artistic Director at the Royal Academy. In 2014 she set up her own curatorial, artistic advisory and strategic consultancy company. In addition she has recently acted as Interim Director at Firstsite, Colchester and Artistic Director of the Jakober Foundation, Mallorca. As well as curating many successful exhibitions she has lectured and written extensively in her field and her book Madam and Eve on women artists, was published in April 2018. Her broadcast activities include the seven series of Portrait/Landscape Artist of the Year for SkyArts.

She is Chair of the Liverpool Biennial, and a specialist advisor to the National Trust. Previously she has held roles on the strategic committee of the Grand Palais, Paris, the Wellcome Collection exhibition advisory group, chaired the Churches Conservation Trust’s Art Advisory group, was a founder member of Women Leaders in Museums Network and is currently a Trustee of ArtUK, on the advisory council of 2 Temple Place, the editorial board of Apollo and the visual arts committee of St Paul’s Cathedral, London.

What are you doing, reading, watching, or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

For someone who is most clearly NOT an artist, I’ve come to realise that what I most want and need to be doing is being creative. For me, in this second lockdown, that’s taken the form of cooking and knitting. Returning to knitting after a 30-year gap was somewhat disconcerting but, like the proverbial bicycle, it wasn’t long before the clackety clack of the needles fell into its old, familiar pattern. Having completed my first effort (a sloppy Joe cardigan since you ask), I am now bereft that it’s finished and wondering what to do with my hands as I sit in front of the telly each night. It’s not a cheap hobby…Like everyone else, I’ve exhausted all the box sets but have just spent a delightfully, self-indulgent morning wallowing in the truly appalling, but quite brilliant, musical homage Prom on Netflix. I don’t recommend it, but I do, but I really don’t. Just watch it.

Tai Shan Schierenberg, Kathleen Soriano and Kate Bryan on location at Broadstairs for Landscape Artist of the Year

What are you working on right now?

Making TV from home has kept me extremely busy over the last few months. Setting up a makeshift studio in my box room cum office cum wardrobe, preparing home-made video tapes, getting the lighting and sound right for our Sunday morning Portrait Artist of the Week series, has been the focus of my week. In some ways I’ve enjoyed it more than the Year as it’s just me and my laptop and thousands of artist friends all around the world, logging in to paint-a-long with us every Sunday morning. It’s been a real tonic for the soul, not just for the incredible community of artists it’s built, but also for all of us making it.

In exhibition terms, I’ve been busy shaping my Eileen Cooper RA exhibition for Leicester Museum & Art Gallery for Autumn 2022, a Mario Testino show for Compton Verney in early 2022, the Mikalojus Ciurlionis (Lithuanian late 19th century Symbolist artist) exhibition for Dulwich Picture Gallery in 2023, as well as creating two shows for the English Civic Museums Network that will travel to Japan in 2023 and 2024.

It’s also been a busy time at the Liverpool Biennial, which I chair. Having postponed our July 2020 opening to March 2021, a huge amount of work and re-alignment needed to happen with the programme and in the city and I cannot praise our Guest Curator, Manuela Moscoso, and the team around her, enough for all that they have done and all that they have achieved under difficult circumstances.  We look forward to March 2021 and the opening in the fabulous city of Liverpool – a moment for us all to rejoice in new hopeful dawns … hopefully. Come! Covid-willing.

Kathleen Soriano at the Hungarian National Gallery, Budapest - Active Collections Conference, 26-29 April 2018

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I have always suffered from being a perfectionist and being overly conscientious. As a direct consequence, many around me have also suffered – apologies to you all. Those two characteristics can mean that you carry the weight of your role within a major institution with some heaviness. Having done that with pleasure and delight for over 30 years, whilst working in major institutions, I find that now that I work for myself, I am more selfishly driven by the idea of working on projects that give me genuine pleasure – no matter how grand or insignificant the task (I’m a sucker for a good bit of admin). And, generally, my work aims only to bring joy and happiness to those involved be they artists, organisations, audiences, whatever.

Whilst I may have become more pragmatic in my old age, truth, honesty, beauty in all its extreme variants, generosity and kindness remain the values that I care about most in life and in work.

How has this year affected your ideas of what you want your contribution to be in future?

This year has only confused me even more in relation to my contribution, specifically with regards to my sector. I see our museum and gallery directors on the front-line dealing with insurmountable issues and still trying to champion all that we do. That’s not my role any longer but I couldn’t have more respect for their tireless work on this front. I see the world changing, I see need and opportunity changing and wonder how I must alter and adapt to be useful and of service. But ultimately the community of artists that have come together through Portrait Artist of the Week (and PAOTY and LAOTY) show me that there is powerful passion for creativity at all levels, grassroots and all the way to our elevated iconic artists, and it is my job to credit them all, to value their work and to encourage that creativity in the most democratic way I can.

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions you have curated and why?

That’s like asking me to pick my favourite child. But two shows stand out, for very different reasons. The Anselm Kiefer retrospective at the Royal Academy of Arts in 2014 felt like a huge personal achievement – working with one of our greatest living artists, building a pathway through his monumental oeuvre, blowing visitors away with the rhythm and pace of the hang, and installing the works in what are to my mind the most beautiful galleries in Europe. Secondly I would have to mention the big Australian landscape art survey show that I made, again for the RA, in 2012. Sure it had its faults, but it served its purpose in bringing art that people should know but didn’t know to their attention, on one of the world’s most significant stages, spawning Australian art shows across Europe and the US in the years that followed.

Broadening the canon has always been central to my approach and intentions, especially when you have such a platform as indeed I was lucky to have at the RA.

Anselm Kiefer and Kathleen Soriano at the press preview of his retrospective at the Royal Academy of Arts, London

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

I’m always looking for an elegant rhythm and pace to the hang and to the storytelling that sweeps the viewer along so that they leave with a fully rounded experience in which they might have learnt something or felt something meaningful or just achingly beautiful. For me, whether it’s on the wall or in a book, it starts with the images and I allow them to dictate the story that they want to tell.

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

I like to think that I provide artists with a fresh pair of eyes. Eyes that understand the art world context that we all operate in and that can help them strategically navigate their way through it. That, and a fabulous eye for hanging…

What was the last artwork you purchased and why?

Just this morning I bought two works from Liorah Tchiprout – one a gift and, as always happens when I’m buying something for someone else…one for myself! Liorah featured on Portrait Artist of the Year and whilst her work was probably not literal enough (in likeness terms) to see her go on to win, I was drawn to the strange, otherworldly nature of it. Her work tends to depict puppets that she has created, posed in a seemingly life-like manner that bring all sorts of narratives to the compositions, some a little bit disturbing and unnerving, but which I rather like. They remind me a bit of Honoré Daumier’s works but her approach is very Paula Rego, but looser and more distinctively Liorah.

Liorah Tchiprout, Princess Study, 2020, Charcoal and oil on gessoed paper, 14.5 x 19 cm

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

My next book How to be an Artist which I’ll be writing with my fellow Judges, Kate Bryan and Tai Shan Schierenberg. Watch this space.

Do you have any advice for people wanting to work in the arts?

If you can, go in at the bottom of a larger organisation and look around you before you make any firm decisions about the role that you most desire. The range of different types of work within the arts is phenomenal and whilst we all know about curators, directors and the like, there are still incredibly invaluable roles be they in fundraising, digital content, press and marketing, learning or whatever. Often these are not apparent from the outside so getting into a larger organisation where you can see these roles at play, and learn more about them, might just help you refine and define your own future pathway in a less obvious and more creative way.

Follow Kathleen on Instagram @kathleen.soriano and Twitter @KclSoriano 

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Curator interview: KIERA BLAKEY

I was a fan of Curator Kiera Blakey's work way before having had the pleasure of meeting her. If you've used public transport in London, you will probably have seen or experienced some of Kiera's work with artists, positioned in and around the London Underground stations.

It takes an extraordinarily committed and tenacious Curator to support artists producing new work for such complex public sites. Kiera has a lovely balance of being gentle, considerate and yet fiercely determined when comes to supporting of artists realising their ambitions. She is generous, kind, refreshingly down-to-earth, and believes in the transformative potential of creativity.

We share a passion for connecting artists with a broad and diverse public, and in prising open the art world, to be more welcoming, inclusive and for treating people fairly and respectfully. I can't wait to see what she brings to Nottingham Contemporary.

     Kiera Blakey ┬® Chris Rawcliffe, 2018

Curator Kiera Blakey was raised in the Lake District and lives and works in London and Nottingham. She is currently Head of Exhibitions (maternity cover) at Nottingham Contemporary and until recently was Curator of Art on the Underground, where she led a number of ground-breaking public art commissions that sought to challenge our conception of what art can be. These include with artists Larry Achiampong, Laure Prouvost, Assemble and Matthew Raw, Linder and Nina Wakeford.

Kiera has edited publications with Book Works and Self Published Be Happy; written for Camden Arts Centre and is regularly invited to talk and teach. Recent freelance projects include Elisabeth Wild at Focal Point Gallery and Karen Cunningham at The Showroom. Kiera recently joined Daily Life Ltd. as a trustee and has served on the advisory board for Banner Repeater since 2018. She has a BA in Fine Art and MA in Philosophy.

What are you doing, reading, watching, or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

I love podcasts and listen to a huge array, from the Paris Review to the Frost Tapes. Recently I’ve been listening to the BALTIC’s new series For All I Care which was recommended by my new team. I’ve especially felt nourished by Johanna Hedva’s reading from their new book Minerva the Miscarriage of the Brain, that delves into mysticism, madness, motherhood, and magic. As we come to the end of a year spent online, I’ve been finding short texts and poetry to be my saviour and I’ve been devouring Divided Publishing’s new book Night Philosophy by the inimitable Fanny Howe. I also wanted to give a shout out to my new team, who run currently an excellent online public programme. I knew of Five Bodies before I joined the gallery and it’s an absolute must. Some of the most interesting writers and poets gather to read together. Last week Sandeep Parmer read and spoke about the importance of the archive as a means to bring people to life, better than any biographer can, because of course no life is conclusive. It was beautiful and I felt alive afterwards.

Assemble and Matthew Raw, Clay Station, 2017, Photo: Assemble

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I’m passionate about engaging audiences in order to transcend geographic, racial and socioeconomic barriers and thus the role that public institutions have in creating inclusive environments. I’ve had a fair few jobs where I’ve witnessed and been on the receiving end of appalling behaviour. How can we make programmes about care and equality when our own institutions and infrastructures are perpetuating the very behaviours our programmes are seeking to challenge?

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

Nothing extraordinary really. By being curious, listening, talking and open to unexpected opportunities. Visiting lots of exhibitions, reading and talking ideas through with friends and peers.

Laure Prouvost, Pocket Tube Map, 2019, Photo Benedict Johnson_2019

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

Larry Achiampong who rightly the deserves the accolade he’s achieved. Johanna Hedva who moves between performance and writing and whose words deeply move me. Cooking Sections who use installation, performance, mapping and video to explore the overlapping boundaries between visual arts, architecture, ecology and geopolitics in a way like no one else right now.


What do you usually have or need in your office or at work to inspire and motivate you?

Lots of books, the Internet and a door I can close.

What systems, rituals and processes do you use to help you get into the creative zone?

I’m an absolute creature of habit so I need routine to be able to focus and work at my best which isn’t always possible! I normally walk or run in the morning before I start work, I need the fresh air and vitamin D to set me up for the day, especially since the pandemic has meant working from home. And I’m a morning person, you’ll get me at my best first thing.

What recurring questions do you return to in your work?

Public voice – who has it, who gives it, who gets to decide.

Jade Montserrat, hand this piece to one Jacob Aston West (b. approx. 1941-43, Montserrat), 2018;
LINDER, The Bower of Bliss tube map cover commission, 2018. Photo Benedict Johnson

What risks have you taken in your work that paid off?

I don’t know if it’s so much of a risk but I remember some people questioning why I was taking up a post at Art on the Underground as it wasn’t deemed ‘cool’ I suppose; whatever that means. I had the most amazing six years there, though that isn’t to say there weren’t plenty of challenges. It was an amazing job with a lot of autonomy, each commission was so unique and meaty, it was never boring and I learnt an unbelievable amount. It taught me to follow my own goals and values, not an idea of what I thought I should be doing with my career.

What risks have you taken that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I would say nearly every exhibition or commission I’ve worked on has something go awry, that’s just the nature of working with people. I’ve had some shocking moments, been screamed at, installations going wrong in the final hour, artworks stolen, you name it. It’s all part of it and you just learn how to be comfortable in the mess and plan for it.

LINDER, The Bower of Bliss, 2018. Photo Thierry Bal

What is your favourite exhibition or event you have curated or participated in and why?

I can’t choose one as every exhibition is so different and I’ve been lucky to work with so many brilliant people. A highlight for me was definitely working with LINDER. I’d been an enormous fan of her work since I was a young girl (I grew up in the North West like her). We made an 85-metre photomontage, the largest LINDER had ever produced, that included work from six local collections, women’s groups, dancers, musicians, costume designers, architects; it was so rich in its source material. The work was on display for 18 months and it changed over the course of that period, “like a giant sticker book” LINDER called it. It responded to current events, it was political, it was pop, a giant image of women’s empowerment through history to today.

What would you hope that people experience from encountering your work?

To welcome the imperfections, to create space for different bodies/ perspectives/ experiences; that the material, whether through words, performance or literal, has an important role in how we relate to each other and the world around us.

LINDER, The Bower of Bliss, 2018, Photo Thierry Bal

What compromises have you made to sustain your practice?

Being broke and working for free, though I absolutely wouldn’t encourage that and in fact am actively against it!

What advice would you give your past self?

Not to care so much what people think of you and trust yourself.

Laure Prouvost, you are deeper than what you think, 2019, Photo Thierry Bal

Can you recommend a book, film, or podcast that you have been inspired by that transformed your thinking?

Can I choose an artwork? It isn’t necessarily the work I love but what it introduced me to. Growing up in the North West I had zero access to contemporary art apart from the books I read, in fact I didn’t really know it was a thing. When I first moved to London, I went to see Gregor Schneider’s Artangel commission Die Familie Schneider in 2004 which took place across two adjoining terrace houses in Whitechapel. You collected a key from a nearby office and were instructed to let yourself in alone. The houses mirrored each other and were dark, dingy, stale and terrifying. Each room had live actors - a man masturbated in the shower; in the bedroom a small figure sat calmly under a bin liner. I was petrified at the time but it really opened my eyes to a new possibility.

Follow Kiera on Instagram @kiera_blakey and visit Nottingham Contemporary website 

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Curator and Collector interview: MARCELLE JOSEPH

I was first introduced to Curator and Collector Marcelle Joseph by artist Charlie Billingham, at a preview at the Tate in 2012.

We both exhibited Charlie's work, and our interests and enthusiasms for artists and ideas continue to connect. I have enjoyed following Marcelle's curatorial and collecting initiatives and really appreciate her holistic support of artists, over a longer period of time.

She truly loves and appreciates artists, and is passionate about their work and contribution. She is deeply committed to finding ways to support the arts, in diversifying the landscape and is generous in her wider support and contribution to the arts ecology. She is a patron of artists, galleries, arts charities, education initiatives and commissions and buys new work regularly.

We are both Trustees of Matts Gallery, and I find her sincere determination and passion for ensuring a greater parity in the artworld refreshing and much needed. She is a positive, respectful, considered, calm, and thoughtful contributor and a real pleasure to work with.

Marcelle Joseph, Photo, Gabrielle Cooper

Marcelle Joseph is a London-based American independent curator. In 2011, Joseph founded Marcelle Joseph Projects, a nomadic curatorial platform that has produced 38 exhibitions in the UK and the rest of Europe, featuring the work of over 200 international artists. Joseph's expertise is in early career artists based in the UK, in particular, female-identifying and non-binary artists, and has an academic specialization in feminist art practice after completing an MA in Art History with Distinction from Birkbeck, University of London.

In 2013, she executive edited Korean Art: The Power of Now (Thames & Hudson), a survey of the contemporary art scene in South Korea. Additionally, Joseph is a trustee of Matt’s Gallery, London and served on the jury of the 2017-2019 Max Mara Art Prize for Women, in collaboration with the Whitechapel Gallery and Collezione Maramotti, and the Mother Art Prize 2018. She also collects artworks by female-identifying artists under the collecting partnership, GIRLPOWER Collection, as well as more generally as part of the Marcelle Joseph Collection. Throughout 2020, Joseph has acted as Curatorial Consultant for Lychee One, a commercial gallery located in East London.

What are you doing, reading, watching, or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

I’m a sucker for the here, the now and the new, and I love literary fiction. So I am drawn to the debut novelist just as I am drawn to the early career artist, and two years ago, I vowed to myself that I would only read the prose of women and queer writers and writers of colour. Who wants to read about a world envisioned by a white straight male writer when we are governed for the most part around the world by white straight males for the benefit of the same group of people largely to the exclusion of all ‘others’. Looking at recent reads on my Kindle, these are some of my recommendations for those of you with reading predilections like mine: Catherine Lacey’s Pew, Yaa Gyasi’s first two novels, Candice Carty-Williams’ Queenie, Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half, Jeanine Cummins’ American Dirt, Ta-Nehisi Coates’ The Water Dancer, Tayari Jones’ An American Marriage, Bernardine Evaristo’s Girl, Woman, Other, Kate Elizabeth Russell’s My Dark Vanessa, Esi Edugyan’s Washington Black, Jesmyn Ward’s novels and Curtis Sittenfeld’s Rodham.

At the moment, I’ve gone back in time to fill in some holes in my lexicon. I’ve just ordered most of the books written by Octavia E. Butler and Toni Morrison. I had to buy physical copies as I have a feeling they will be heavily annotated and nourish me with inspiration for future exhibitions.

Other than reading, I have been hiking in a forest near my home in Ascot while listening to The Great Women Artists and Talk Art podcasts. Supposedly, ‘forest bathing’ strengthens our immune system, reduces blood pressure, increases energy, boosts our mood and helps us regain and maintain our focus in ways that treeless environments just don't. So London doesn’t have the same allure it once did for me before the lockdown.

I do have a few current guilty pleasures to help me stay positive: Darren Star’s Emily in Paris and Katherine Ryan’s The Duchess – both on Netflix and both featuring strong and funny female protagonists with killer wardrobes. I’m dying for the days pre-pandemic when we had occasions to dress up for.

Installation view of PROUDICK, curated by Marcelle Joseph at Hannah Barry Gallery, London, 2018,
with artworks by Lindsey Mendick and Paloma Proudfoot, Photo: Damian Griffiths

What do you enjoy the most about curating?

For me, it’s everything that happens prior to the opening of the exhibition: the research, the writing of the text and the placement of the artworks in the space, but, most importantly, it is all of the conversations and studio visits with the artists that led me to choosing them to participate in an exhibition I am curating.

How do you develop your curatorial ideas?

It usually starts with a text I am reading or song lyrics I am listening to. Previous thematic group exhibitions have been inspired by the likes of Frank Ocean, Haruki Murakami, J.G. Ballard and Ursula K. Le Guin. Once the theme has been formulated, I start to think about what artists I would like to include, and always ensure that the mix of artists is as diverse as possible across the gender and racial spectrum in order to attract audiences that are equally diverse.

Installation view of Monster/Beauty: An Exploration of the Female/Femme Gaze, curated by Marcelle Joseph at Lychee One, London, 2020,
Artworks left to right: Rafaela de Ascanio (ceramic vase), Chelsea Culprit, Lisa Brice, Cristina BanBan, Hanne Wilke, Sophie Thun and Zanele Muholi. Photo: Corey Bartle Sanderson

How do you discover artists and what factors contribute to your decision to curate an artist’s work?

I am an art addict and see as much art as I physically can, whether it be at degree shows, museums, galleries, project spaces, art fairs around the world or on Instagram or in art magazines. Most of my recent curated exhibitions have been thematic groups shows so I choose the artist’s work that I feel fits the theme the most. If I do not yet know the artist, I will arrange to meet the artist in their studio to learn more about their practice and what drives their creative impulses.

Installation view of Young Monsters, curated by Marcelle Joseph at Lychee One, London, 2019,
Artworks l-r: Glen Pudvine, Gray Wielebinski and Neil Haas, Photo Corey Bartle Sanderson

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

A friendly ear, a creative eye, a critically engaged outlook and sometimes even a shoulder to cry on. As a curator, I literally want to be a safe space for the artist to realise their full potential. I want to be a sounding board too. I love the exchange of ideas between a curator and an artist. I may recommend to an artist a certain theorist to read or an artist reference to check out and they may recommend other artists’ work to me or texts to read or films to watch.

Installation view of Dancing at the Edge of the World curated by Marcelle Joseph at Z2O Sara Zanin Gallery, Rome, 2020,
with artworks by Saelia Aparicio (wall works), Charlotte Colbert (bed) and Lindsey Mendick (ceramic work on floor), Photo: Sebastiano Luciano

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

One of my favourite exhibitions I have curated was Dancing at the Edge of the World, a group exhibition in 2020 at Z2O Sara Zanin Gallery, a large commercial gallery space in Rome, featuring the work of ten female-identifying artists and inspired by my favourite feminist science fiction writer, Ursula K. Le Guin. The featured artists were Saelia Aparicio, Charlotte Colbert, Monika Grabuschnigg, Zsófia Keresztes, Alexi Marshall, Florence Peake, Proudick (Lindsey Mendick and Paloma Proudfoot), Megan Rooney and Eve Stainton. And the exhibition envisioned a feminist or non-binary utopia – a new universalism of sorts, devoid of inequality, domination and exploitation and full of feminine pleasure. So it had many of my favourite things: identity politics, empowered female/femme voices, feminist theory, artists with process-based material-led practices, two commissioned wall paintings and two commissioned performances.

This exhibition also attracted my first ArtForum review and four different mentions in Italian national newspapers, so I was very proud of its reception both in Italy and internationally. I really enjoy curating exhibitions outside of the major art world hub that I live in – London – as there is less competition for viewers’ eyeballs so an exhibition can have greater visibility and promote more important conversations about art and the world outside of the gallery in a smaller city.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

I would like the viewer of an exhibition I have curated to still be thinking about the exhibition the next day, the next week or the next month – either a specific artwork moved them aesthetically, spiritually or intellectually or the dialogue between works by different artists made them think differently or gain new insight about that artist’s work, or the theme of the exhibition made them interrogate or examine the world or their own interiority, in a socially, politically or emotionally engaged manner.

Marcelle Joseph in her drawing room in Ascot with artworks left to right:Laurence Owen (ceramic vases),
Athena Papadopoulos (sculpture), Colden Drystone (painting), Jesse Darling (sculpture) and Brian Griffiths (sculpture on coffee table). Photo: Kâthe Kroma

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to collecting artists’ work? What do you care about?

I care a lot about supporting artists at the point in their career when they need it the most, so I am predominantly buying the work of early career artists. But what I’m most interested in achieving across all my activities – whether it be curating, collecting or patronage – is the representation and support of artists who have been marginalised by the patriarchal canon and the white male dominated art world. It started with my support of female-identifying artists through the curation of all-womxn group shows and the GIRLPOWER Collection, a collecting partnership I founded in 2012 with Kimberly Morris, a Zurich-based friend, that acquires only work by female artists. Slowly, over time, this support has grown to encompassing the queer community of artists and artists of colour as an extension of feminist theory to queer and post-colonial theory.

In 2017, I curated You see me like a UFO in my home in Ascot. It was the first exhibition I curated that featured my own collection. I hung all of my works by female and queer artists and artists of colour in prominent positions and commissioned artists Marie Jacotey and Evan Ifekoya to make a set of curtains for the show, behind which were hung the works in my collection by straight white male artists. It was not an attack on these male artists in my collection but a gesture of letting other artists be ‘seen’ and relish the power normally reserved for the patriarchy – a little like Eddie Murphy in Trading Places (1983) – a role reversal of sorts as well as a forecast of better times to come. As Oprah Winfrey said, ‘There is no discrimination against excellence’. And I am attempting to support excellence that may not be recognised by the broader art market, that is largely led by men for men, whether they be artists or collectors.

Installation view of You see me like a UFO curated by Marcelle Joseph at her home in Ascot, Marcelle Joseph Projects, 2017):
Evan Ifekoya’s commissioned curtains, Where is your Sense of Urgency?, 2017, and other works by Morgan Wills, Colden Drystone, Grant Foster David Micheaud,
Ralph Hunter-Menzies, Robin Seir, Laurence Owen, Brian Griffiths, Matthias Merkel Hess, James Capper and Nikolai Winter. Photo: Jan Krejci

What do you enjoy the most about collecting?

The thing I enjoy the most about collecting is living with the creative expression of so many amazing artists that I have met, written about or worked with over the years. I often call my collection a collection of conversations, as it is very important for me to meet the artist before I collect their work. There are exceptions to that rule but very few. My collection is like living with some of my best friends. And many of my relationships with artists have taken many different guises over time. For example, I may have a studio visit with an artist just after they leave art school, then I invite them to participate in an exhibition I am curating a year later, then I buy their work for the collection a year after that and then two years later I throw a dinner party in their honour for them to meet other collectors and curators, then two years after that I loan their work to a museum exhibition.

Jessie Makinson, Spiral Bound, 2017, Oil and pigment on canvas, 195 x 165 cm, Courtesy of the artist and Marcelle Joseph Collection

Do you have a focus to your collection?

Most definitely, but not from the very start of my collecting in 2010. I have really enjoyed developing my eye over the years, learning what drives my taste and honing the philosophy of my collection. I call myself an activist collector as I largely collect early career women and queer artists who make work that is about the performativity of identity politics and/or is all about materiality and the processes of making.

Chelsea Culprit, High Spirited Chimeras witih Hypnotic Digital Masks II, 2018,, Oil, acrylic, enamel, gouache, graphite,
pastel, fabric on canvas, 150 x 241 cm, Courtesy of the Marcelle Joseph Collection

Can you describe the kinds of artists and works that light your fuse? 

Given that I am attracted to material-led practices, I tend to buy more painting and sculpture than time-based media. I absolutely love ceramic and textile works. I do have photography and video in the collection but it represents a smaller percentage. Although some of the latest works I have added to the collection are in fact photographic works – including two works by Larry Achiampong.

In terms of geography, the collection is predominantly focused on UK-based artists given that I am physically based in London, most of my curatorial activities take place here and I prefer to meet the artists before I collect their work. I also need to keep shipping costs low so that limits my collecting universe. I do reach out to artists and galleries outside of the UK so the collection contains some works by artists from around the world as well. Given my penchant for identity politics, I am partial to figuration and representational styles at this moment in time.

Artworks in Marcelle Joseph’s home in Ascot, l-r: Caterina Silva, Athena Papadopoulos and Liane Lang, Photo: Jan Krejci

What kinds of supporting information & materials do you use to help you make the decision?

I do a lot of research before adding an artist’s work to my collection. I often already know the artist as explained above, but I look at artist and gallery websites and Instagram accounts; I read online press reviews and artist interviews; I subscribe to ArtForum, Art Review, Frieze, Art in America, Kaleidoscope, Mousse, Cura and Elephant; and I parse through the artist’s CV as I value pedigree and an artist’s choices throughout their career in terms of art school, exhibitions, residencies and awards. And if the artist lives outside the UK, sometimes I wait until I am travelling somewhere that I can meet them in person before acquiring the work.

Do you have a maximum budget when collecting (monthly? annually?) Do you stick to it? If not, what kind of work has made you stretch?

Since I am interested in supporting artists in the earlier part of their careers, I do have a maximum budget per artwork and that is currently £7,500. The few times that I have stretched over that amount was because it was a GIRLPOWER Collection acquisition as Kimberly Morris and I are 50/50 partners in that collecting partnership.

Do you have a preferred range of galleries you buy from? What is it about their way or working or roster of artists that you connect with?

I often buy an artist’s work directly from the studio if they are not represented yet or from an exhibition I have curated. But there is definitely a group of galleries that are my go-to galleries as I trust them and their way of working with their roster of artists. Typically, as gallerists, they stage exhibitions that are more curatorial in scope. This is often not the most commercial way to run an art gallery, but I think it is more important to contextualise an artist’s work properly than to focus solely on shifting an artist’s work to the highest bidder. My current favourites are Arcadia Missa, Bosse & Baum, Copperfield, Emalin, Hannah Barry Gallery, Seventeen, Soft Opening and The Sunday Painter in London and Gianni Manhattan and Sophie Tappeiner in Vienna and Queer Thoughts in New York (in alphabetical order of course).

Marcelle Joseph in her cloakroom in Ascot with a permanent commission by Ludovica Gioscia, Photo Kâthe Kroma

Where do you show and store your collection?

Currently, the 250 pieces in the two collections – the GIRLPOWER Collection and my own personal collection - are on display in my homes in London, Ascot (UK) and upstate New York (US). I try to rehang every 6-12 months to get the newer work on the walls and out of my spare bedrooms in Ascot where I store whatever is not on display.

Exhibition view of Electronic Superhighway, MAAT, Lisbon, Portugal, 2017, Including GIRLPOWER Collection’s work on right: Amalia Ulman,
Excellences & Perfections (Instagram Update 19th June 2014), 2014, 150 x 150 x 2.5 cm, unique, Phromogenic print dry mounted on aluminium mounted on black edge frame

Do you loan from your collection? If so, can you give an example of the kinds of requests you receive?

The GIRLPOWER Collection and I both loan works from the two collections. For example, a work by Amalia Ulman that is part of the GIRLPOWER Collection was loaned to Whitechapel Gallery’s Electronic Superhighway exhibition in 2016 where it later toured to MAAT in Lisbon, Portugal. And I have loaned a work by Eileen Cooper RA to her solo show at the Royal Academy of Arts in London in 2015.

Do you have any advice for artists who engage with collectors IRL and online?

My advice to artists is to make the effort to keep your CV's and websites up to date and post all current developments on your Instagram feed. Network as much as possible at private views and other art world events as you never know who you will meet. And remember that collectors are always eager to meet new artists.


Follow Marcelle on Instagram @marcelle.joseph and visit her website


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Gallerist Interview: NIRU RATNAM

I first met gallerist Niru Ratnam at Frieze art fair, around 2007 I think, when he was running his pioneering gallery STORE, in London. Niru and STORE represented artists I knew and liked, such as Ryan Gander and Bedwyr Williams. I have always found his honesty, sense of humour, willingness to take creative risks, try new avenues and put his head above the parapet interesting and inspiring. He has got a great eye, is invested in bringing about positive change for artists and is a positive tour de force in the art world, having revealed its inequalities for many years. He is serious about the value and power of art and creativity but doesn’t take himself or the systems we’ve invented too seriously. He is willing to debunk our ideologies, rattle ivory towers and shake feathers when need be.


Niru Ratnam, Photo by Damian Griffiths

Niru Ratnam is a gallerist and a writer. He co-founded STORE which ran from 2003 to 2008 and then worked as Director at Aicon Gallery and KÖNIG Galerie. Earlier this year he opened up Niru Ratnam Gallery. He's written about art since the late 1990s for both art publications and the general press. He's worked in the public sector, setting up Inspire for Arts Council England, a positive action programme for curators of colour. He is currently on the board of DACS having previously been on the board of Nottingham Contemporary, Chisenhale and Whitechapel Gallery.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

Having had no real knowledge of American comedies for years I am now binge watching Brooklyn 99 as I was intrigued by the casting of Black and Latino actors in the lead roles as well as having LGBT characters in  what is a pretty mainstream comedy on the surface. It's also something that my eldest child likes watching so we can swap notes on what we think of it. I also do quite a bit of tai chi and cooking. And a very good bottle of red wine also helps.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to the gallery? What do you care about?

I wanted to bring together the things I have been writing and thinking about since the late 1990s, primarily around identity, race, gender and class, and a commercial gallery programme. The gallery focuses on artists of colour and women artists. I'm also aware that there aren't that many gallerists of colour around in the UK and Europe so that plays a part in the way that it is run.

Suture, 2020, Featuring Kobby Adi, Lydia Blakeley and Jala Wahid, Niru Ratnam Gallery, London, Photo Damian Griffiths

What do you enjoy the most about running a commercial gallery?

Working with the artists to realise a show and getting collectors, curators, and critics to come and see it. Also being able to live with the art for a few weeks in the gallery space which is a real privilege - it makes going into work rather wonderful.

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

I prefer studio visits and seeing other exhibitions by artists rather than looking through social media to discover artists. In terms of working with them it's very much about the studio visit and if they have an outlook on the world that chimes with mine.

Matthew Krishanu,Picture Plane, 2020, Niru Ratnam Gallery, London, Photo Damian Griffiths

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I think it's more about realising that there are different audiences and working out which bits of audience will be most interested in particular artists.

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

A decent gallerist can guide an artist through the commercial artworld as this isn't something which is taught particularly well or widely. It's about offering bits of advice and thinking about good people to introduce that artist's works to.

Matthew Krishanu,Picture Plane, 2020, Niru Ratnam Gallery, London, Photo Damian Griffiths

How do you go about building a market for an artist?

By trying to work out who I know who will appreciate the work and then talking to them about the artist. I'm not particularly digitally-savvy so I don't really use the online platforms, but I know this is a good option for certain gallerists and artists. I rather like talking to people on a more personal basis although I appreciate this only really works if you are quite a small operation.

Can you describe a remarkable moment in your creative career that you feel surprised or proud of?

I always think it's pretty special when a good exhibition comes together, and you think back to the early conversations in the studio with artists. Watching shows develop from that first conversation through to just after they have been finished installed still makes me happy and proud.

What risks have you taken in the gallery that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I worked in art fairs for a bit and tried to push the model to be properly global without realising that the main problem with that idea is that the good little galleries who were on the other side of the world might have been willing to participate but couldn't afford the shipping costs, and the ones who would participate Alex (because they had lots of cash) could sometimes be a bit iffy. So, I'd end up programming quite idiosyncratic art fairs where there were a few worthwhile discoveries, but they'd be buried in amongst some rather uneven stuff. A good lesson in when practicalities cut down rather idealistic ideas.

What new strategies are you trying or considering in the current climate? How will you measure success?

None of the strategies I am trying are very new - several them are very old, but got a bit forgotten when the commercial art world got a bit out of control.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

I would hope that they engage with the artist who is on show and hopefully go away wanting to learn more about that artist. And hopefully that they would want to come back!

Lydia Blakeley, Cromer Crab, 2020, Oil on linen, 50 x 35 cm, Featured in Classics, Niru Ratnam Gallery, London 

Do you have any advice for artists? 

I've never been an artist so I don't think that my advice on being an artist would hold much weight. I've always admired them though. I can offer practical advice about the commercial art world which roughly goes along the lines: most gallerists in the commercial art world have their heart roughly in the right place but not all of them. The best thing to do is to trust your gut instinct when dealing with galllerists and dealers - if something doesn't feel right, it is probably because it isn't right.

Lydia Blakeley, Umbro, 2020, Oil on linen, 65 x 50cm, Featured in Classics, Niru Ratnam Gallery, London 

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

I think there are some great organisations out there, from a-n The Artists Information Company under the guidance of Julie Lomax through to DACS, who safeguard artist image rights (I'm on their board). The best resource though is the community of artists themselves - talk to other artists!


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Coming Next...

An interview with curator and collector Marcelle Joseph.


Artist-Curator Interview: GAVIN WADE

I first met Gavin Wade in 2002, when I was working at Grizedale Arts and toured the artist-extravaganza Roadshow to Lickey Hills and the Ikon Gallery in Birmingham. I have been consistently bowled over by his ideas, commitment, entrepreneurialism, energy and determination ever since.

He has devised and delivered some incredibly exciting and ambitious projects over the years, and Eastside Projects artist led gallery and incubator space is in itself a remarkable achievement.

Gavin and co-Director (and fellow artist) Ruth Claxton kindly invited me to join the Advisory Board of Eastside Projects around 2008. Over a couple of years, I gained first -hand experience of their inspiring, innovative and strategic leadership and ability to galvanise and instill confidence in artists and stakeholders alike.

Gavin is a creative pioneer - first and foremost an artist-curator but also exceptionally good at translating complex ideas to non arts audiences and enthusing others to support artists and their ideas. He makes space for dialogue and creates lush, inviting environments with artists that you want to dwell in and explore.

Gavin Wade and Sonia Boyce, 2020, photo by Vanley Burke

Gavin Wade is an artist-curator, Director of Eastside Projects, and Senior Research Fellow at Birmingham City University. His curated and co-curated exhibitions include Sonia Boyce: In the Castle of My Skin (2020), This is the Gallery and the Gallery is Many Things X (2018), Display Show (2015–16), Temple Bar Gallery/Eastside Projects/Stroom den Haag; Painting Show (2011–2012), and Narrative Show (2011) at Eastside Projects. Earlier exhibitions include Strategic Questions Venice, 52nd Venice Biennale (2007); Public Structures, Guangzhou Triennial, China (2005); ArtSheffield05: Spectator T (2005).

Gavin’s diverse sites for making and curating art include a Naval Frigate, Portsmouth Cathedral, Greenham Common, Clumber Park, The Piccadilly Line: London Underground, Dudley Zoo and the new Smithfield Market in the centre of Birmingham (2020–2025). His books include Upcycle This Book (2017); Has Man A Function In Universe (2008); and Curating In The 21st Century, (2000). Ongoing projects also include A-Z Display Units (After Kiesler & Krischanitz) (2015–) and Strategic Questions publishing project (2002–).

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

(14 May 2020) I just am positive! I watch a lot of TV. Quite a bit of Twitter and Instagram. I read comics. I watch plants grow. Exciting plants. Tilandsia. Cycads. Cyathias. Cacti. Diascoria. Pachipodiums. Good TV at the moment is DEVS. So good. Or an episode of Midnight Gospel. Lady Skollie recommended it to me. Before I realised it’s by Pendleton Ward who made Adventure Time. I love Adventure Time. Great art. One episode is enough at a time. Every day. Proper eye-opening family viewing (if your kids are late teens!). I’ve just finished the 3rd series of Ozark. Totally captivating and stressful but makes you so glad you didn’t get into money laundering or drugs! Brooklyn 99 I can watch over and over. Just started watching The Last Dance after reading Sean Edwards tweet about it being the thing he is looking forward to each week. It’s so good. I’m not even into basketball and was never the slightest bit interested in Michael Jordan but it’s captivating, compelling watching about the obsessive creative will to become, to win, to make a difference, to overcome.

I haven’t been reading so much because I totally splurged out on comics earlier this year. If I’d known I would have waited!  Just before lockdown I finished this mega boxset graphic novel of Buddha by Osamu Tezuka. At 8 volumes and 3000 pages it’s a joy to become immersed in this master of comic book making. He worked on it from 1972 to 1983 and it feels like an irreverent labour of love. It’s really really good. I might go and read Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples’ Saga from start to halfway again. I just got into Jonathan Luna’s comics too. Waiting for Issue 4 of 20XX to come out. The ultimate pandemic comic. Only a very few survive but if you do, you gain telekinetic powers! Ironically Issue 4 has been delayed by lockdown in the States. Due out on 17 May, I think. How I will get a copy, I don’t know. But I will.

The keyworkers that affect me the most are these artists. I keep thinking about all the artfulness keeping people going in their heads as much as the practicalities and administration of our bodies, deliveries, power supplies, policing. TV, comics, music, stories, film, the art on our walls, our clothes, our mugs, everywhere.

Sonia Boyce, In the Castle of My Skin, 2020, Eastside Projects, curated by Sonia Boyce and Gavin Wade
Co-commissioned by Eastside Projects and MIMA. Photo by Stuart Whipps

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

Creativity. My own and others. Birmingham. Utopia. Freedom without fear. Visions. Magic. Points where systems intersect. Creating life. Dancing. Escaping. Committing. Supporting and feeling supported. Collaborating. Improving. Patterns. Love.

Monster Chetwynd, Hell Mouth 3, 2019 (with Guttersnipe performing at Supersonic Festival) Curated by Gavin Wade, co-commissioned by Eastside Projects and Capsule/Home of Metal

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

Make exhibitions. Write exhibitions. Draw exhibitions. Teach exhibitions. Speak exhibitions. Dream exhibitions. Argue exhibitions. Be exhibitions.

(17 September 2020) Four months has passed since I sent you those answers back in early May. Feels like the whole world has changed and looped back on itself in that time. Looking back at my previous answers it puts into focus how much interviews and answering questions is so dependent on what is happening around you on that day, week. How you’re feeling at the time. How much time you really have to think about these things. When self reflection is useful or not. I’m still positive but definitely feel more measured about just leaping into the void than perhaps some of those previous answers. I might continue the answer to that last question:

Save exhibitions. Resuscitate exhibitions. Free exhibitions. Reimagine exhibitions. Let exhibitions go. If you can. If you have the time and the space and the support and the freedom to.

In truth, exhibitions are testing and scoping. It is the form of doing exactly that. I don’t think you need other ways of measuring the form of exhibition. It’s enough in itself. Exhibition is life lived successfully. That’s what I mean. I’m not into the bureaucratising of exhibition. I’ve been into the exhibiting of bureaucratic systems sometimes. Putting them to better use. Bureaucracy is pointless in and of itself. Exhibition always has a point.

This is the Gallery and the Gallery is Many Things X, 2018, (Truemendous performing with Libita Clayton, Etel Adnan tapestry behind) photo by Zunaira Muzaffar

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

One of the joys of running Eastside Projects is that insight and chance to experience so many other artists works. We made the Extra Ordinary People (EOP) open call for a show in our second gallery earlier this year and had probably the strongest set of applications we have ever had. It was following on the heels of Lindsey Mendick’s powerful EOP exhibition, The Yellow Wallpaper, which had inspired many emerging artists to go for it, I think, and make an ambitious proposal to us. We interviewed eight artists as there were so many strong applications. It was a joy to meet them all on zoom and talk about what could be. The downside to having so many artists apply is the sadness of not being able to offer them all projects. But, Lindsey had applied a number of times in the past for shows and projects and not quite made it but we were really excited by her work, and it paid off in the end, for us, and for her. And the same this time. We have ended up offering to work with three of the artists we interviewed instead of just one. For the first time we just felt one of the applications was too big for the second gallery and so we have invited Emii Alrai to develop a show for our main gallery in Autumn 2021. I was so excited by Emii’s work, and the images we saw of the show she has made at Tetley in Leeds, and how she spoke about the work. Honest, direct, confident in her skills and sources and intentions. Emii spoke of medieval hunting, woven mazes, animal traps, all through the lense of colonialism and Iraqi heritage, a display that she loved in Birmingham Museum and Art Gallery and making, making, making. Ruth Claxton, Associate Director here at EP and artist of course, and I both felt so energised by meeting her and seeing the work. A similar feeling as when we went to visit Samara Scott years ago in her studio and offered her the main gallery show in 2015. It can be so significant to work with an artist in their emerging years, in this case Emii is in her late 20s, to develop a big show together. If the time is right, it’s right.

We also invited Leah Clements to make a new immersive show in the second gallery in May next year alongside the show we are developing and co-curating with Harold Offeh and Dance Xchange next year. Leah hypnotised us with incredible sounds and spoke of the sirens of the deep calling to deep sea divers. She proposed a new work that uses light and sound and form to control a sublime moment, an attempt to create a moment of bliss and weightlessness. Very excited to see how the show develops.

And we also loved Sarah Maple’s works and proposal to make a type of short TV series of short films around language. Learning Punjabi in the UK and the slips in languages between different generations that you just become more aware of as you work with more people from different cultures that make up what the UK is, sharing learnings and insights. I hope we can support Sarah’s sharp, funny work to get the attention it deserves. It should be prime time viewing. Lots to do.

There’s so many artists to talk about. I’ve just loved working with Luke Routledge who has made a super ambitious show alongside Emma Talbot’s show in the main gallery. It’s great to see the seeds of an idea in someone like Luke, a great maker here in Birmingham, and be able to offer support and advise over the last couple of years and watch as he turns his dream into a reality with a show like Strange Matter. I’ve been fortunate enough to work with Luc Pheles, now going by Mwana Nkisi, and see his initial drawings flourish and grow into the stunning detailed drawn objects he is making as part of Sonia Boyce’s In the Castle of My Skin. The chance to link up young artists with powerhouses like Sonia is so great, so much learning in both directions, and Mwana will make new works for MIMA next too, so a great chance for others across the UK to experience his work.

Luc Pheles (Mwani Nkisi) Ishango, 2020, Ink and acrylic paint on painted plywood, bone, motherboards
Part of Sonia Boyce: In the Castle of My Skin, 2020

What do you usually have or need in your studio or at work to inspire and motivate you?

I like stuff, and books, and images, and materials and all sorts of things, but I think it’s people more often than not that motivate me and inspire me. I’m really good at the ideas bit, often. Whether it’s generating ideas or just recognising and supporting others’ ideas. It’s the bit I crave, and get overexcited about, as much as the making and experiencing of the exhibition. I love to collaborate. So if I haven’t got anyone else there. I need to make something to bounce off, respond to. But looking around me, there are no constants. My work spaces tend to be a bit messy. I think they’re ordered messes. Things find their way to the surface when the moment is right.

I write lots of things down. Make notes of sounds, tunes, titles. If you want to make exhibitions it’s a good idea to have things ready for just such an occasion. Lists of artists I’d like to meet and work with. Lists of words and sentences if you need to make a song. Questions and structures that I might want to include in something one day. Stuff to do. It is sometimes just in my head also.

Gavin Wade, Songs of the Modern World, 2020, Album cover, designed by James Langdon, New Reality Records

What systems, rituals and processes do you use to help you get into the creative zone?

Just talking. Bouncing ideas off people. Noticing things and asking questions. I like artist’s writings for that reason. Questioning themselves. Letting things flow out in different forms. I think the equivalent to processes and rituals is to come up with structures that will take time to unravel and work out what to do next. It’s what Eastside Projects is in some ways, or my Strategic Questions project of 40 questions as publications, or even Support Structure, my collaboration with Celine Condorelli. A big system into which I can operate, solve, propose, combine and learn as I go along. My ongoing A–Z Type Display Unit series (After Frederick Kiesler and Adolf Krishanitz) is another one I started in 2015 within Display Show. It gives me scope to include new ideas with existing ones, and to collaborate with other artists, living and dead.

My current collaborations with Paul Conneally are a different example. Mostly based around poetry forms of renga that we write on twitter as #twenga and #tantwenga we send each other a three or two line text and the other responds using the nonlinear system of shared writing based on Japanese renga. When we do the 100 verse Twengas they involve other people from one other to, I think, there was 18 people in the last one we wrote during lockdown, the 11th Twenga. But we just started a whole other project making music together. Paul started a record label called New Reality Records and was asking me to send him words, recordings, songs for him to produce. During lockdown I finally succumbed and it has been quite magical working with him. I always wanted to be a pop star of course, but along with my comic making career it never became my focus, but I’ve always written songs, had words ready for a song, found tunes. I started making a list of all the songs I could remember and had written down and so far I have about 30. Some had lyrics and melodies but not music. Some have music and sounds but not words, and some are quite complete. I’ve been recording them on my phone, sending them to Paul and he has been converting them into wonderful pop moments of sadness and electronics. We made a single and I’ve got an album completed and coming out for the start of October now. It’s called Songs of the Modern World: Volume 1. We’ve decided to make at least 3 volumes. I think we have more in us! I’d really like to make some songs with other people too, lots of great artists I’ve worked with recently who rap and make music, and would love to collaborate on other tracks. There’s an interesting freedom in making songs. It feels like making another artwork to me, but it is different too. In a good way.

What recurring questions do you return to in your work?

Oh, utopia, I suppose. How to get there, and rename it. What can you do in your life, given the opportunities that are available. How can you make life, shape something in the world, shape yourself. What happens when things collide? What’s at that point of intersection? What is our function? Was something that happened, meant to happen for a reason, and I just didn’t get it? I’ve made so many projects using questions. So the form of questions is a methodology to me. My Strategic Questions project has 40 questions of which I’ve answered/published 27 artworks with probably over 100 artists. Still 13 to go. There’s not meant to be a question that you could ask that isn’t contained within one of the 40! They were written by R. Buckminster Fuller back in the 1960s as the set of questions you need to answer if you want to solve all the worlds problems. Fuller was serious about it. He did think the world needed to change its geopolitical structure and think about how everyone could have equal access to the world’s resources. He tried really hard. He was an interesting man, and model for a type of artist in a way. He writes about being able to see the world with fresh eyes, from different perspectives and through others eyes. This was because he had the good fortune to not be diagnosed as being incredibly short sighted until he was older, and so the moment he was given glasses for the first time, he felt like he was completely seeing a new world. One he had never experienced. He was so conscious of that moment of discovery, that the world wasn’t a blur that he tried to approach everything else in his life with that same wonder of seeing something for the first time.

Inside Emma Talbot’s When Screens Break, 2020, Eastside Projects, Birmingham, Photo by Ashley Carr
L-R Zoe Sawyer, Amelia Hawk, Candice Nembhard, Yas Lime, Gavin Wade, Ruth Claxton

What risks have you taken in your work that paid off?

It’s all risks in life and the artworld in some ways. I know some things are not so much about survival and that I have always felt confident, secure and loved and that I could have a go at doing whatever I set out to achieve. But I never planned to run an art space. I had set my mind to being against the idea that an artist-curator should be hemmed in by running a building, or an organisation, or (the horror) an institution. So in some ways, opening up to the idea that I could create a new entity, an artwork, in collaboration with many others, is how I convinced myself to start up Eastside Projects. It took me a while to warm to the idea that it might be a type of institution. Another structure for achieving things and making things possible. It paid off completely. It has been an incredible 12 years of creativity and amazing people to work with. The structure of Eastside Projects allowed me to make jobs for other people, to bring art, money and ideas into Birmingham, to make connections and influence people and ways of doing things in this city, to be part of something much bigger than me. And it still does. It may not look like a very risky enterprise. But we have gone through a lot here, not least of all the right now. The pandemic has made many things impossible. We can still function, but not without extra support. We have to adapt. Quickly.

What risks have you taken that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I really don’t know. It all gets merged into the ways forward. Bounce back. Try and survive. Try and do what you think best. Listen to those you trust. Listen to those you don’t! I actually feel like I’ve got to that age now where it gets harder to pin down moments, and risks. In fact, the thing I would say about ‘risk’ is that our society has become obsessed with it. Risk aversion. And that it is a problem. A way of controlling people and events, actions, dreams, freedom. It’s a big part of the professionalisation and regulation of our lives. And particularly of being an artist. I really prefer to make up my own rules. Which is why I have always loved manifestos, manuals, policies, artworks, but not to control other peoples’ lives, or manipulate other people. To create freedom. I acknowledge that one person’s freedom is another’s prison though. Nothing should be treated as neutral or natural or standard or normal when looking at rules, terms and conditions, codes of conduct. In many ways the biggest risk is when you don't write things with others!

Yelena Popova, The Collectors Case, 2015, Custom flight case, 7 aluminium frames,10 paintings, mixed medium on linen, each 75 x 55cm, from RCA Series 2011 and
Gavin Wade, Proposed Functional Configuration, 2015, 281.5x197.5cm,
1:1 cutting diagram (The size and position of Andrew Lacon’s A Display for Sculpture 07 is set by Gavin Wade as a proposal for the new size and position of the Gallery Entrance of Temple Bar Gallery + Studios), Display Show, 2015, Temple Bar Gallery, Dublin

What is your favourite exhibition or event you have curated or participated in and why?

I genuinely don’t have a favourite. It’s one of the weird things about doing an interview where you have a list of questions, rather than are asked in person. You can make something up on the spot if need be, and it will be the favourite thing that popped into your head in that moment, but it’s so reliant on context. I have had so many powerful significant moments in my life where I have made exhibitions and events. I have had opportunities to work with some incredible artists, some outstanding people. It’s more about how things come together over time, which is something you realise the longer you stick at it. There is this seemingly impossible practice now, that I used to have, where you go round the world doing stuff and hanging out with other people who have decided to be artists and curators. It was amazing. But it doesn’t feel like it should happen again. It doesn’t feel relevant any more even. I left London a long time ago now, in 2004. And it has been the true privilege to be able to work in Birmingham so intensively for such a sustained period. And to not travel so much. To not go out into the world to find new experiences. To realise they are all here. I don’t know if I would say that if I hadn’t had that previous experience though. Probably not.

What would you hope that people experience from encountering your work?

Something new about themselves and their relationship to the universe.

What compromises have you made to sustain your practice?

(9 October 2020)


I’d love to leave it at that! You have to make choices. They always involve an element of compromise. You can be positive about it. You compromise something about yourself in a good way when you join with someone else. You gain so much more by not only going with your own impulses.

What advice would you give your past self?

Take better care of your lower back!

Can you recommend a book, film, or podcast that you have been inspired by that transformed your thinking?

The comics of Alan Moore. From the age of about 13 up to his most recent Providence series about H.P. Lovecraft which I only read a couple of years ago, Moore’s comics have been a constant jolt to my system. The form, range and ambition of his works are astonishing. ‘Transformed your thinking’ is a big ask, and that is exactly what Alan Moore focuses on. How does art transform our reality? It’s at the heart of Moore’s project. Whenever I read another powerful comic, book, or film, it is partly through the filter of growing up reading Watchmen, Miracleman, Swamp Thing, the Ballad of Halo Jones or From Hell. It stays with you as you encounter other forms. I’d recommend Bucky Fuller’s Synergetics and Synergetics II also. Or most of Fuller’s writings as transformational, for me. Then I weigh them up with and combine them with ongoing recent transformational moments of learning from writings and lectures by Kehinde Andrews here in Birmingham. Kehinde has made me look at the world in a different way. To question an idea of white psychosis and to consider how the world needs to change. To shake off the systems of racism and control that surround us, and that we are part of. To have been able to attend some of his lectures at Birmingham City University and hear his Black Studies students speak about their positions and ideas in the world. To hear Kehinde talk about learning and understanding about black history through hip hop for example, it is so rich and honest and brave. Or have you read any of Adrian Piper’s writings? Everyone should read her words. I’ve been drawn to Piper’s works over the past few years, and she has given so much to art, and to the world. Try and get hold of a copy of Out of Order, Out of Sight, if you can. It includes writings on, alongside and beyond her artworks from the late 60s to the early 90s. Re-reading some of them again over the  past few months makes you realise again how much of a pioneer she is and how much the world still has to catch up with her. And the best sci-fi novels of course. I’m reading Nnedi Okorafor’s Binti series at the moment. The smallest details of cultural practices and moments rendered into reality by her words is real creative power. Real knowledge. Real art.


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Interview: SARAH COOK

I first met curator, writer and academic Sarah Cook when I was Director of Exhibitions at FACT in Liverpool, in 2004. Sarah was, at that time, engaged in pioneering work, establishing CRUMB (Curatorial Resource for Upstart Media Bliss), with co-founder Beryl Graham in Newcastle and Gateshead. Together they hosted workshops and courses worldwide and CRUMB was, and remains, a vital resource and network for curators of new media art.

Sarah continues to champion international artists working with technology, always creating new commissioning, funding and exhibiting opportunities for them. She thrives on immersing herself in deep research, has an enviable ability to retain facts and seamlessly weave the contemporary and historical to address the issues of our time. Throughout her work she marries the social, political and cultural spheres in order to help us re-imagine our engagement with technology, each other and how we shape the world around us.

In 2018, whilst I was Director of Programmes at Somerset House, the Director Jonathan Reekie and I invited Sarah to curate the exhibition 24/7 with Jonathan. As always, Sarah worked above and beyond, spinning academic, curatorial, writer and editor plates between Dundee, Glasgow and London, to ensure the show and catalogue were delivered in record time, and a success. This determination and tenacious dedication to her work is reflected in her habit of taking daily swims in the cold Northern sea.

Sarah Cook is Professor of Museum Studies in Information Studies at the University of Glasgow and based in Scotland. She has curated and co-curated international exhibitions of contemporary art and new media art including: 24/7: A Wake-up Call For Our Non-stop World (2019), Somerset House, 2019-20; The Gig Is Up, V2_Institute for Unstable Media, Rotterdam, 2016; Right Here, Right Now, The Lowry, Salford, 2015; Alt-w, the Royal Scottish Academy, SSA Annual Exhibition, Edinburgh, 2014; Not even the sky: Thomson & Craighead, MEWO Kunsthalle, Memmingen, 2013; Biomediations, Transitio_MX_05, Mexico City, 2013; Mirror Neurons, National Glass Centre, Sunderland, 2012; Q.E.D., AND Festival, Liverpool 2011; Untethered, Eyebeam, New York, 2008; Broadcast Yourself, AV Festival 08, Newcastle, 2008; Database Imaginary, 2004 and The Art Formerly Known As New Media, Walter Phillips Gallery, The Banff Centre, 2005.

Sarah is one of the curators behind Scotland’s only digital arts festival NEoN Digital Arts and was founding curator of LifeSpace Science Art Research Gallery in the School of Life Sciences, University of Dundee (2013-2018), where she curated 16 exhibitions including newly commissioned work from artists Mat Fleming, Heather Dewey Hagborg and Philip Andrew Lewis, Andy Lomas, Daksha Patel, the Center for Postnatural History, Helen and Kate Storey, Mary Tsang, Spela Petric and many others.

She is the editor of INFORMATION (Documents of Contemporary Art, Whitechapel and MIT Press, 2016) and co-author (with Beryl Graham) of Rethinking Curating: Art After New Media (MIT Press, 2010; Chinese edition 2016). Sarah has held a longstanding association with The Banff Center, developing exhibitions, summits, curatorial residencies and publications including co-editing with Sara Diamond Euphoria & Dystopia: The Banff New Media Institute Dialogues (Banff Centre Press, 2011). In 2008 Sarah was the inaugural curatorial fellow at Eyebeam Art and Technology Center in New York. She was curator of new media at BALTIC Centre for Contemporary Art from 2004 until 2006, hosting residencies and projects from Germaine Koh, Lev Manovich, Darko Fritz and Studer / van den Berg. For 3 years she was an associate producer with Locus+. After completing her PhD at the University of Sunderland, she also curated exhibitions for the Reg Vardy Gallery and helped establish the MA Curating programme and Professional Development short course with CRUMB.

Sarah holds a Masters degree from the Center for Curatorial Studies at Bard College, New York (class of 1998) and is proud to have begun her professional career as a curatorial researcher in the longstanding internship program at the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis working on exhibitions with Yayoi Kusama and Lorna Simpson.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

During lockdown there were some new relaxing weekend routines (involving issues of Grazia and chocolate Magnums for instance) but there wasn’t one thing. Unless you count the Netflix production of Lemony Snicket’s A Series of Unfortunate Events, which I’d been meaning to watch for years having loved the books, and it didn’t let me down. The world is quiet here. Whatever bad thing you think is just around the corner, it’s bound to be something worse. Look away.

Which is to say, I adopted a slight ‘ignorance is bliss’ or serendipitous happenstance approach to stop feeling overwhelmed, not just by the bad news, but by the amount of digital creative art content available to consume online and the pressure to be producing material to add to the discussions around it.

Given my academic post in museum studies, I should be writing about the massive change museums have experienced during lockdown. As a sometime historian of new media and digital art I should be tweeting non-stop about this thing called online art that museums are only now discovering. I am doing a bit of both, but it is not possible to do only that given the projects I have on the go and all the time-pressured tasks that come with University work (not least planning for an uncertain year ahead). Despite lockdown lifting and museums and galleries now open again, it’s still not over. I'm watching it all, taking notes, lodging these cultural shifts in my memory, they’ll come in handy later.

I’ve been able to stay positive by not guilt-tripping myself if I miss being part of a conversation thread online, or by delighting in the serendipity of checking social media and finding a link to a live discussion or performance happening right that minute and tuning in for as long as I can. I’ve given myself permission to be both present and absent. Or as Lemony Snicket would say, to do something else right now if it will save my life: “There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you, and there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.”

Installation view of the exhibition The Gig is Up!, 2016 Curated by Sarah Cook for V2_,
showing crowd-sourced drawings of clouds by self-employed creatives working on fiverr, by Addie Wagenknecht and Pablo Garcia

Do you have an enthusiasm, specialism or a research focus that you bring to your teaching and academic practice?

I love works of art that take pieces of information and turn them into other, often networked, experiences. I like forging connections between early works made with networks or technology, with new works, often made for collective experience.

I have knowledge of media art history - including Internet art - and of the intersection of art and science (which has patches of history of technology and philosophy of science thrown in too). This might explain my curatorial choices.

So, for example, the large-scale exhibition 24/7: A Wake-Up Call For Our Non-Stop World at Somerset House (which I co-curated with Jonathan Reekie) included (among many other things!) Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg’s Machine Auguries, a light and sound installation based on an AI-generated dawn chorus, Thomson&Craighead’s BEACON, a flap sign displaying randomly a decade’s worth of Internet searches mixed with live searches, and Daily tous les jours I Heard There Was a Secret Chord - a room where you could collectively hum Leonard Cohen’s song Hallelujah, creating a choir based on the number of people listening to the track online around the world at that minute. All of these works used innovative software coding and to a certain extent ran live, some in a generative form.

And in the spin-off of 24/7, the show Sleep Mode (an online takeover I curated in June at Somerset House because the original show at Glasgow International in April was cancelled due to COVID-19) viewers could watch Addie Wagenknecht’s online security tips disguised as beauty tutorial videos, or Hyphen-Labs compilation of yawns taken in their facial recognition photo-booth, or hear Alan Warburton talk about the digital rendering of 3D ‘natural’ landscapes in virtual space, on-screen, and how at odds that feels with our desire to collectively experience real nature, off-screen.

lnstallation view of Daily tous les jours' I heard there was a secret chord, seen in the exhibition 24/7: A Wake-Up Call For Our Non-Stop World,
Somerset House, October 31 2019-February 23 2020. Photo courtesy of Somerset House

I currently teach students who want to go on to work in the cultural heritage sector - galleries, libraries, archives and museums - and so to help them understand the practice of curating (and digital curation, which is not the same thing) I use these ‘lively’ interdisciplinary art works to foster discussion around big ideas that curators have to ask themselves, like, where is the audience? How much context is needed to understand this thing? What happens if the material a work uses is unstable – which part is worth preserving? Where or when does the art ‘happen’? Who is responsible for that encounter?

We are living through a huge shift in what we understand to be ‘cultural heritage’ if everything we produce digitally is now part of that. The cultural heritage sector has to rethink what role its institutions play in the creation of culture too. Digital art might tell us as much about the digital transformation of our lives as a defunct computer in a museum display case; bio-art might tell us as much about the major developments in life sciences as an unreadable genome sequence. The Instagram photos of the demonstrators toppling the statue of slaver Colston tell us more about this moment than the removed statue itself does. In a time of total information overload, where do we draw the line around what is a valuable piece of information and what isn’t? Is the Bristol Museum going to save the Instagram posts as well as the graffiti on the statue they dredged out of the harbour? Can we tell the difference between authentic and post-produced types of information (#fakenews)? Perhaps an artist can tell us. Or point us in the direction of the real story.

YoHa (Graham Harwood),, Commissioned for the exhibition Database Imaginary, 2004, Curated by Sarah Cook, Steve Dietz and Anthony Kiendl,
for the Walter Phillips Gallery, Banff Centre, Canada (and touring)

What systems or processes do you use to ensure a contemporary critical teaching practice?

I follow the artists and their work. Which means, I encourage students to interrogate what an artist has done, how and why and who for. And then I question where that reading of the work has come from: Have they been misled by patchy documentation? Did anyone record a first hand experience of the work that they could consult? Is the artist’s intent recorded anywhere? I try not to reinforce an academic hierarchy between sources, but question their authenticity, and thereby encourage students to make their own documentation. In my ‘Curating Lively Practices’ class last semester I said that no one could cite a Wikipedia page in their essays unless they’d edited the Wikipedia page themselves. I think that frightened a few, which it wasn’t meant to, it was to encourage participation in the creation of resources about art, participation in the online culture we all unthinkingly consume.

What aspects of your teaching practice do you work hard at to keep consistent and why?

Probably being approachable and slightly tangential in my thinking, drawing on my own experience and offering my own connections, memory or impression of something as a document to go test the veracity of. I show I am connected to current practice, that I have seen or attended exhibitions or talked to artists or other curators, or visited museums, or tried to keep my own papers and digital documentation in order (and failed). This means I can be understood as a practitioner constantly engaged in research, and therefore that curating is an ongoing, iterative activity.

 Installation view of Bill Miller, Ruined Polaroids, at NEoN Digital Arts Festival, 2017, Installed in DC Thomson’s West Ward Works,
former newspaper printing facility in Dundee, as part of the curated exhibition Media Archaeologies

What art educators, art colleges, courses or curriculum have inspired you?

A friend who has written a book about toilets (Lezlie Lowe’s No Place to Go) was asking something about public conveniences in the UK post-pandemic, and it sent me on a deep trawl of’s Wayback Machine to find the syllabus for a course (I didn’t take, but a friend did) at the defunct MRes/PhD programme The London Consortium (run by Tate, The AA, The ICA, The Science Museum and Birkbeck) about the history of shit and civilisation. I was reminded how much I love an idiosyncratic reading list (that combines art work, philosophical texts, historical records, museology, archival theory, sociology, film, etc.).

I think if an artist or designer wants to work with digital tools then I’d send them to the School for Poetic Computation, run by TaeYoon Choi, or Interactivos? run from Medialab Prado. Or if they want to experiment with biological materials in art I’d send them to Cultivamos Cultura in Portugal, or to Symbiotica at the University of Western Australia...There are any number of niche communities and hard working organisations out there for whatever it is an artist wants or needs to learn.

Learning from practitioners is key. I was taught by an amazing roster of curators when I was a masters student in New York last century. I particularly remember being challenged by the art critic Peter Schjeldahl to be less dashing in my disdain in my writing, and to not overthink or over-intellectualise things (still failing at that!). Dia Art Foundation curator Lynne Cooke (now at the National Gallery of Art in Washington) taught me that conversation with the artist is the most important thing - go to their studio! Diana Nemiroff, longtime curator at the National Gallery of Canada, taught me that context, facts and materials need to be properly researched and understood in order to curate, more so than (the then emerging) tomes of curatorial theory. Art historian Linda Norden taught me to follow my instinctive reading of a work down a path, articulate it. And during lockdown, a few months ago now, Canadian artist and lover of libraries, Cliff Eyland, died, and I remembered that after I’d curated a mad show about snowboard culture, he told me that my ethnographic methodology (curating outwith the bounds of my own expertise, infiltrating a scene, and trusting the experience and knowledge of others) was valid and I should continue with it. I think I have.

Nowadays I am inspired by and learn from the younger curators, curatorial assistants, exhibition producers, technicians, and digital producers that I work with, recently at Somerset House and with NEoN.  At NEoN we’ve had two recent graduates from University of Glasgow’s Digital Media and Information Studies programme join us on summer placements and I’ve learned a huge amount from them, not least about digital file management!

Installation view of Braking Matter by Michel de Broin; viewing the work are artists Sascha Pohflepp and Alexandra Daisy Ginsberg, whose work Yesterday’s Today was also part of the exhibition
(Q.E.D., Liverpool John Moore's University Art and Design Academy Galleries, September 2011, as part of the AND [Abandon Normal Devices] Festival.) Photo courtesy of AND Festival

Which contemporary artists seem to be influencing artists today and why do you think that is?

Come back to me with this question in a few week’s time after I’ve reviewed the Goldsmith’s MFA (online) degree show! I’m expecting to see work influenced by artists such as Rachel Maclean and Tai Shani (fictional+digital+persona+history+storytelling+performance+++)

What tips or exercises do you recommend to artists who have creative block?

During lockdown I tried to chat regularly with friends who were furloughed and am still checking in with them as to how they’re staying engaged when facing uncertain job futures in the shrinking cultural sector. I think uncertainty or doubt leads to inertia, so you need a routine to fall back on (even if that involves chocolate magnum ice-creams or issues of Grazia). I was reminded of Ellie Harrison’s Artists’ Training Programme which was a spoof website but had a very good daily schedule as part of it. At the time she made it, it was related to all the work she was doing about quantifying her life, and data tracking. The schedule involves always listening to Front Row - tune in after the Archers - whether you like it or not. Routine is important to give your mind time to wander. This might not get you to make art, but it might send you off down another research path which might later become part of your work.

What current issues, themes or concerns have you noticed arising in students practice in recent times? And which philosophers, theorists, writers or thinkers are influencing students today?

Those students focused on museums are deeply concerned about expertise, authority, accessibility, transparency, ethics - who decides what gets collected, what gets shown, how it gets talked about. With Black Lives Matter and the attention to public memorials and statues, anti-racist and inclusive practices of co-creation are a key concern. In rethinking the museum I’ve also been encouraging students to think about alternative spaces where culture is produced or preserved, including digital spaces, and so that includes thinking about who owns those spaces, how they are run, what they prioritise, are they held in common?

In 1968 Jack Burnham wrote in ArtForum that we’d shifted from an object-oriented culture to a systems-oriented one, where “change emanates, not from things, but from the way things are done” —museums have evolved to recognise that culture means not just looking after things but enabling audiences to engage with those things in new ways, but the artists are still ahead, always suggesting new ways for things to be done, new systems. Perhaps now we are shifting to an (inter-species? post-human?) experience-oriented culture, change emanating from how we experience the world (and all those experiences are unique, if understood to be connected). I’m not sure if this reflects what artists are working on, but I sense a real mixing of the disciplines, an intersectionality (influenced by the writings of Rosi Braidotti, Anna Tsing, Tim Ingold, Timothy Morton, all the materialist-object-oriented-speculative-design folk, and by reading horoscopes, magic spells, tarot cards, learning other knowledge systems) whether that is across social and political discourses, environmental and ethical concerns, gender and science, personal and private or collective, historical or future-oriented… COVID-19 will be part of this too, as will the Black Lives Matter movement.

So despite not having time, I’m going to dive into yet another Slack thread about how museums are responding to lockdown, in case I can convince any of them to collect some digital art made from it…



Follow Sarah Cook on Instagram @littlecurator and Twitter @sarahecook and visit her website

Please share this interview



And do subscribe to our newsletter for a monthly round-up of some useful creative hacks, insights, opportunities, and introductions. At the end of each month we host a free special 30 minute online subscriber event on Zoom, providing subscribers with the opportunity to meet and ask Ceri Hand questions about creative careers or in relation to mentoring.

The next informal Q&A session will be Wednesday 30 September 6pm-7pm  and newsletter subscribers will be sent an invitation a little closer to the time.

Feel free to email or contact us via socials @cerihand

Coming Next...

An interview with Gavin Wade, artist-curator, Director of Eastside Projects, and Senior Research Fellow at Birmingham City University. His curated and co-curated exhibitions include Sonia Boyce: In the Castle of My Skin, (2020), This is the Gallery and the Gallery is Many Things X, (2018), Display Show, (2015–16), Temple Bar Gallery/Eastside Projects/Stroom den Haag; Painting Show (2011–2012), and Narrative Show, (2011) at Eastside Projects.



I first recall learning about Harold Offeh’s work when I worked at Grizedale Arts in 2003. I have enjoyed watching his playfully challenging practice unfold ever since.

He is committed to tugging at the edges of things and drawing them and us in closer. He is a shapeshifter, a cuttlefish prepared to make a spectacle of himself for us, to swim in the darkness to reveal the shafts of light.

He reminds us of what is at stake in the perception and consumption of the body, of images, of our relation to each other. I love his commitment to truly engaging with people and place, of keeping it simple, stupid. Sometimes wild, sometimes tragi-comic, his work has the catch of a stellar earworm pop track by an alternative band - meaningful, surprising, yet cheekily catchy and accessible.

Harold Offeh, Selfie Portrait in the Studio, 2020

Harold Offeh is an artist working in a range of media including performance, video, photography, learning and social arts practice. He employs humour as a means to confront the viewer with historical narratives and contemporary culture.

He has exhibited widely in the UK and internationally including Tate Britain and Tate Modern, South London Gallery, Turf Projects, London, Kettle's Yard, Cambridge, Wysing Art Centre, Studio Museum Harlem, New York, MAC VAL, France, Kunsthal Charlottenborg, Denmark and Art Tower Mito, Japan. He was a Paul Hamlyn Visual Arts Award Recipient in 2019.

He studied Critical Fine Art Practice at The University of Brighton, MA Fine Art Photography at the Royal College of Art and recently completed a PhD by practice exploring the activation of Black Album covers through durational performance. He lives in Cambridge and works in London and Leeds, UK where he is currently a Reader in Fine Art at Leeds Beckett University and a visiting tutor at the Royal College of Art, Goldsmiths College and The Slade School of Art, UCL, London.

Upcoming projects include a new video commission exploring the redemptive power of joy through social dance for the Wellcome Collection's (London) season, 'On Happiness'. Offeh will be exhibiting as part of 'Untitled, Art on the Conditions of Our Time' a major group exhibition of British artists of African descent at Kettle's Yard in Cambridge, UK. Hail the New Prophets, will see Offeh realise his first major public sculpture as part of the Bold Tendencies exhibition in Peckham, London.

He is a Trustee of Wysing Arts Centre, Cambridge, UK; Peckham Platform, London, UK and Pavilion, Leeds, UK.

Selfie Choreography, 2020, Workshop and performance presented for Eastside Projects, Birmingham, UK, Photos: Ashley Carr

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I’ve been watching lots of random stuff on YouTube, an eclectic mix of political commentary on the upcoming US election, Solange's music videos, gardening tutorials and too many reaction videos. What keeps me most positive is just speaking to friends and other artists. Oh, and food!

Object Action, 2018, London College of Communication, London, UK

What are you working on and how have recent events affected your ideas, processes and chosen medium?

I've been working on a couple of projects that were due open in May. They have both been postponed till next year, but I’ve been agonising about the relevance of the initial research I did pre-Covid. One project is a commission for the Wellcome Collection. I've been looking at the history of social dance as healing for societal trauma. This has led me on a journey from medieval dancing plagues to 90s AIDS dance marathons. I was about to shoot a film with performers that was about collective bodies and movement, sadness, and joy. I'm most unsure about the process of making this work. I'm sure I’ll find a way, but like all of us it's about coming to terms with a whole new societal context.

Bodies International, 2013 Art Basel Miami, USA 

What do you usually have or need in your studio to inspire and motivate you?

I would say I need books and music. When I was writing my PhD thesis last summer I would have to listen to Alice Coltrane whenever I was stuck. This has continued into other projects, particularly writing proposals. I thank Alice all the time!

What systems, rituals and processes do you use to help you get into the creative zone?

I procrastinate a lot. But I've learned to embrace this. Whenever I'm meant to work on something that is difficult or I just can't get a handle on, I procrastinate by doing something else. That could be cooking, watching 90s music videos or as I mature, its gardening

What recurring questions do you return to in your work?

I'm really interested in histories and narratives and who shapes the structures of history. I'm interested in the body as a primary tool of investigation and discovery!

Industry is a Drag, 2017 Middlesbrough Art Weekender, Middlesbrough, UK

What do you care about?


Copyright Christmas, 2011, Barbican Theatre, London, UK

What risks have you taken in your work that paid off?

Performing naked, it was a risk because it's such a cliché in performance art.

Covers, 2008-2020

What risks have you taken that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I've made a lot of mistakes with installing work. Often, when I'm consciously trying to do something different or trying to stick to some rules of displaying. I've learnt to be less worried about it, those mistakes have helped me develop a greater sense of what is my practice.

Selfie Choreography, 2020, Workshop and performance presented for Eastside Projects, Birmingham, UK, Photo Ashley Carr

What is your favourite exhibition, event, or performance you have participated in and why?

I was in The Shadows Took Shape a group show at the Studio Museum in Harlem looking at the Afrofuturist legacy of Sun Ra. It was amazing to be in the company of Sun Ra and so many other amazing artists and at a museum I love and respect.

Covers. After Funkadelic. Maggot brain. 1971 (V2), 2013

What would you hope that people experience from encountering your work?

It depends on the work, but generally I hope they experience curiosity. But I’ll take anything, even indifference

Could you tell us a bit more about at a time when you felt stuck and what you did to help yourself out of it?

Apart from listening to music, when I’m stuck, I find it helps to just talk through the issues. It's particularly helpful if it's an issue of conceptualizing or researching a project. There are few people who I can always bounce ideas off. Being forced to explain a problem to someone else allows you to process the issue and get some perspective on it.

What kind of studio visits, conversations or meetings with curators, producers, writers, press, gallerists, or collectors do you enjoy or get the most out of?

The best studio visits and conversations with arts professionals have been when there is a genuine shared interest and open dialogue. As much as I like talking about the work itself, I really enjoy the conversation that happens around the work. Thinking about histories and contexts. I hate studio visits that are like interviews.

Selfie Choreography, 2020, Workshop and performance presented for Eastside Projects, Birmingham, UK, Photo, Ashley Carr

Do you have a trusted muse, mentor, network, or circle of friends you consult for critical feedback?

I have some go to people. Often, it's the curators I'm working with at the time. George Vasey, Melanie Keen, Zoe Whitley, Adelaide Bannerman, John Kiet Eng Bloomfield, always have amazing insights. On a day to day level, my studio assistant and artist in his own right Jack Scott is amazing.

Which artists or creatives do you feel your work is in conversation with?

This could be a very long list. This summer it has been Michelle Williams Gamaker, Zadie Xa, Tanoa Sasraku. Oreet Ashery, Tai Shani, Anne Duffau (aka A--Z) but I could go on and on

Mindfully Dizzy, 2019 Science Gallery, London, UK

How do you make money to support your practice?

I teach and love doing it. Currently, I teach Fine art undergraduates at Leeds Beckett University and Postgraduates in Contemporary art Practice at the RCA.

What compromises have you made to sustain your practice?

Over the years, relationships. Art practice is very all consuming and demanding. Not everyone wants to be with that. I've never been into dating other artists, but I see the appeal.

What advice would you give your past self?

Be honest about what you really want and keep going.

 Pinatopia Mountfolly, 2013 Pavilion, Leeds, UK

Can you recommend a book film or podcast that you have been inspired by that transformed your thinking?

Book: Radical Happiness by Lynne Segal
Film: Bataaxalu Ndakaaru (Letter from Dakar, 2019, by Morgan Quaintance
Music: Kokoroko's Carry Me Home
Podcast: Kalki Presents: My Indian Life

Follow Harold on Instagram @harold_offeh Twitter @haroldoffeh and visit his website

Please share this interview



And do subscribe to our newsletter for a monthly round-up of some useful creative hacks, insights, opportunities, and introductions. At the end of each month we host a free special 30 minute online subscriber event on Zoom, providing subscribers with the opportunity to meet and ask Ceri Hand questions about creative careers or in relation to mentoring.

The next informal Q&A session will be Wednesday 30 September 6pm-7pm  and newsletter subscribers will be sent an invitation a little closer to the time.

Feel free to email or contact us via socials @cerihand

Coming Next...

An interview with Sarah Cook, curator, writer and researcher based in Scotland. She is Professor of Museum Studies in Information Studies at the University of Glasgow.

She is editor of 24/7: A Wake-up Call For Our Non-stop World (Somerset House, 2019) and INFORMATION (Documents of Contemporary Art, Whitechapel and MIT Press, 2016) and co-author (with Beryl Graham) of Rethinking Curating: Art After New Media (MIT Press, 2010; Chinese edition 2016).



I have known Richard Parry and followed his career for over 15 years. We have connected in our different roles and organisations over this time due to a joint enthusiasm for a vast swathe of artists.

We share a love of performance, the absurd and working with interdisciplinary artists who collaborate and continually push the edges of their practice. Artists I have worked with that Richard has included in his curatorial projects have included Bedwyr Williams, Mai-Thu Perret and Paulina Olowska.

I have visited many of his exhibitions in different organisations and locations over the years and know that I will continue to be curious about his curatorial and directorial endeavours. I am a fan of the lush weird environments he supports artists conjuring.

His gentle demeanour belies a dogged determination to get the job done and he goes to extraordinary lengths to make strange things happen in unusual ways. He keeps taking himself out of his comfort zone to learn, to develop and create new opportunities for artists.

Richard Parry, Photograph Jonathan Lynch

Richard Parry is Director of Glasgow International, Scotland’s biennial festival of contemporary art. Prior to this he was Curator-Director of the Grundy Art Gallery Blackpool where he curated and organised upwards of 30 exhibitions, including solo exhibitions by Mark Leckey, Heather Phillipson, Matt Stokes and Jennet Thomas, as well as the group exhibitions Sensory Systems and Neon: The Charged Line.

Previously to joining the Grundy, Parry was Assistant Curator at the Hayward Gallery, where he organised exhibitions including Psycho Buildings, The New Décor, Walking in my Mind and the ambitious project Wide Open School, where the gallery was turned into a giant ‘school’ involving 100 artists from around the world. Prior to the Hayward he worked as Exhibitions and Collections Assistant at the Visual Arts Department of the British Council.

Parry is also a critic and writer and has written for art magazines including Frieze, Art Review and Modern Painters, amongst others.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

I’ve been staying in a new flat since just before lockdown. It’s a tenement in Glasgow and at the start of this the garden was completely overgrown, with sprawling weeds and the like. An elderly neighbour moved in around the same time as me (with a cat called Prozac) and started to do a bit of clearing. It wasn’t long before I was joining in – such as social distancing would allow – and then another neighbour as well. It’s really encouraged a sense of community in the building. I’ve also been listening to podcasts including one that a couple of colleagues/friends (Jenn Ellis and Cliff Lauson) started called Between Two Curators. Mubi has been important. I miss the cinema and this has been something of a lifeline on that front. I’ve been a subscriber for years but it’s never been as important. For much of lockdown I have been tuning into a radio station called ‘Radio Caroline’ that the writer and critic Jonathan P. Watts ran daily during lockdown via the digital platform Twitch, broadcast from a front room in Norwich.

Mark Leckey, This Kolossal Kat, That Massive MOG, 2016, Installation view: Grundy Art Gallery, Blackpool, Courtesy the artist and Cabinet, London

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I hope that I bring an approachability to my curating. I think that the way I work tends to be quite collaborative and undertaken through partnership. I want to create a space in which an artist can develop new work and in that way is an empowering process, but also one in which the context and audience are there in the picture.  For me one of the wonderful things about working with artists is that you have an opportunity to really engage with different voices and approaches, and to be able to share this with others. When I was in Blackpool I thought a lot about the civic role of art galleries and art in general and I’m very tied to the – probably quite unfashionable – notion of undertaking a public service. I think that if anyone had any doubts about just what an essential public role art and art galleries, museums, festivals etc. play then the advent of Covid-19 and lockdown have really cast these aside.

At the Grundy I also became really aware of, and passionate about, a broader ecology – which might be quite a small ecology - and how artist-run spaces, perhaps especially in less ‘prominent’ towns and cities or can be doing things that are really vital. Being out of the spotlight, but in a supportive environment in that way can encourage genuine risks to be taken. I think back to the incredible programme that Supercollider was doing in Blackpool, with early solo shows for artists like Mathew Parkin (2012), Ima-Abasi Okon (2014), as well as exhibiting the likes of Jamie Crewe and Sean Edwards in group shows around that time. It’s clear the work that such a space can do – often largely unnoticed – in both seeking out and providing artists with shows at key points in their careers. A space like Supercollider would not have existed without the Grundy, as much as anything because the town’s gallery provided a job to the curator who ran it, Tom Ireland. It’s a reminder that at the end of the day, everything is connected, and that every show is important.

Bertrand Lavier, Telluride II, 2005, Neon: The Charged Line, Grundy Art Gallery, Blackpool, 2016, Installation view, Courtesy the artist and Kewenig  

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

Fundamentally, my approach is multi-disciplinary. I did a Masters at the London Consortium, which no longer exists now but at the time was an incredible initiative involving a collaboration between the Tate, the Architectural Association, the ICA and Birkbeck College. The approach of this combined Masters and PhD programme was to bring together students from difference disciplines (I had studied history as an undergraduate) and explore topics from a myriad of different perspectives. If we look at the Glasgow International festival that was supposed to happen this year, and which is now postponed until next year, the theme for this was ‘attention’. I would say the genesis of how I would be working with a theme such as that – both open and complex but also offering a frame - started at the Consortium. Other important markers in the development of this theme were working with Brian Dillon, Lauren Wright and Roger Malbert on the exhibition ‘Curiosity’ for Hayward Touring at Turner Contemporary in 2013. Brian would often talk about attention. The point at which this theme crystallised was through a conversation with the writer and critic Orit Gat back in summer 2018, in which for me this sense that it could be a method, or approach, as much as a theme, became clear. Attention is in some respects a challenge – a daunting theme as a curator. I get the sense that many of us who practice art or curating are in some measure perfectionists, and so paying attention to things is at the heart of it, but inevitably there will always be blind spots. It is perhaps a paradox and double bind that runs through everything.

Tomás Saraceno, Observatory, Air-Port-City, 2008, Hayward Gallery, Southbank Centre, London, Installation view,Courtesy the artist and Tanya Bonakdar Gallery, New York

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Something that I’ve been thinking about recently, which is very connected to attention, is the importance of looking – of going and seeing shows and then really looking at the work. Also of visiting and meeting artists, which I always feel I could do more of, but is vital. There are always exhibitions you will inevitably miss of course for a whole host of reasons, but I’ve become more and more aware recently about how shows I’ve seen – in some cases many years ago – have stayed with me on many occasions. Specific works that bury away in your memory or unconscious even and then it’s only later their importance becomes apparent.

So much does happen now online, in particular through Instagram so that is also another important way of finding out about exhibitions and seeing a representation of an artist’s work. The decision is not necessarily whether to work with an artist (although that’s clearly important) but can often be more about what feels like the right moment and context. Some of the artists I find most connection with and have known the longest I have not yet worked with in an exhibition, because the right opportunity hasn’t seemed to present itself or it hasn’t worked out for one reason or another. At other times you discover an artist’s work and then an opportunity comes that feels absolutely right to work with them on something right away. That could be to do with, for instance, the exhibition space itself, it could be about how it resonates with key debates, concerns or questions at a certain moment, how the work exists in relation to other work or in relation to an entire programme, or where an exhibition is taking place geographically.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I think this very much links with the previous question as I’m always trying to think about audiences when I am programming work. In Blackpool, we were committed to generating a programme which we hoped would resonate with the context of the town and that audiences would hopefully be able to connect with. In many respects the audience there was very a-typical to what you might imagine a contemporary art audience to be. Blackpool is one of, if not the most, deprived town in England and Wales and where the gallery is situation is right in the middle of the most deprived ward. Around a third of our audience lived within a mile radius and were unlikely to have, for instance, have had much in the way of formal art training and in many cases were probably living in fairly desperate circumstances. You were aware that for some people, the gallery was quite simply a helpful place to get warm, or somewhere you could go and chat with the person at the front desk, or somewhere that quite simply wasn’t home or school, both of which might be sites of pain or trauma. That social function is often completely unrecognised. One of the ways that we looked to find ‘ways in’ was to work with artists whose practice somehow resonated with popular culture – something that the town is famous for. So, in this respect, we might work with Simeon Barclay or Mark Leckey, but equally we might look at other elements of Blackpool’s past such as its history of staging party political conferences, in the case of Jennet Thomas.  The gallery office was right next to the welcome desk and so you basically got a sense of nearly everyone who came into the gallery and their responses to the shows. I remember an elderly couple watching the entirety of an hour long Mark Leckey performance lecture video – they were totally absorbed. It’s hard to predict or second-guess what’s going to connect, in many respects at the end of the day you simply have to go with what feels right, but it takes a lot of work, and a lot of listening, to get to that point.

Curating for a festival is totally different to curating for a venue and the audiences can be very different. You aren’t getting to know audiences  throughout the seasonal ebb and flow of the year, you are a moment of crescendo and congregation, of stimulus and a site of dialogue, exchanging of ideas and intermingling of circles and networks, as well as a site of showcase. It is far more focussed, far more visible and as a result there is also far more attention on all aspects – everything has to be on point.   So as a curator you are doing a lot of listening and looking, at once to artists, cultural commentators, critics and other curators.  In the case of GI, it is also very dispersed, with a huge number of voices, curators and artists involved, so it’s never just one person or set of eyes. The programme needs to speak to and nourish those who live and breathe contemporary art, but you also hope that what you’re doing resonates far wider than a smaller group of highly engaged specialists. My experience is that if the art really has something to say then audiences will pick up on that.

Ima-Abasi Okon, The Fountains Are Decorative and Are Not Water Play Areas, 2014, Installation view, Supercollider Contemporary Arts Project, Blackpool, UK
Courtesy the artist. Exhibition curated by Tom Ireland

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

As a curator you always hope that you are giving something more than simply an opportunity – although clearly that is central. I find it important to remember that you are in an amazing and fortunate position to be able to give someone a platform and that’s a very serious responsibility. I like to work with artists when I feel that the opportunity might enable a way for them to push their practice, or fulfil something that they might have not been able to realise yet. I hope that I can provide a chance to bounce off ideas and to assist in helping to shape the show if that’s wanted or necessary. It can really vary massively and this can be linked to the point at which an artist is at in their career, but it could also be about simply how they work. Some artists are really keen to have your input, and for others they have a very definite sense of what they want to do and the role becomes more facilitating. I guess it’s part of the role of curating to judge when and how suggestions at certain moments might open up new territory or assist the artist in enabling new ways of approaching a certain space or the narrative thread of a show. I think that what one can offer is also sometimes totally unrelated to an exhibition, for instance there might be people, texts or other materials that you can help with or suggest.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

Fundamentally as a curator I would see myself as someone who connects artists with audiences and so it is my goal to facilitate this in such a way that it is enriching and resonant for both. The magical moments are when you feel that you have been involved in something that has really gone beyond the parameters of expectations, such as when we did the neon exhibition in Blackpool, which was the first time that contemporary art had garnered substantial national media attention in a positive way in the town, and not simply written off as some kind of opaque elitist joke, which is how a lot of people seemed to characterise it. I got the genuine sense that it was a turning point for how decision makers in the town (e.g. funders, politicians) and many members of public saw how contemporary art could be not just relevant but also something they could connect with and be proud of in relation to the place they lived.

Another way I always thought about this was that the power or importance of an exhibition would not necessarily be felt for years to come – the ultimate goal would have been for someone who was growing up in Blackpool to have come to gallery, without knowing what to expect, and for them to have connected in some way with the work on show and to have discovered something in them that they had not felt before. It would be quite an achievement if this experience would then have led them to have pursued art or some other creative path, which they might not previously have even imagined let alone felt was something for them, and that this experience had been something of a turning point in their life. I hope that this might have happened although I’ll probably never know.

On the flipside of this, sometimes the most rewarding projects are when you see the impact that it has had for an artist. Perhaps Tai Shani in the 2018 Glasgow International is a good, or at least well known, example here. This is a project that was originally set for Blackpool in a joint commission with the Tetley in Leeds, but taking this to Glasgow and having the opportunity to develop it in an incredible theatre space like Tramway, with the amazing technical team there alongside the team at GI, the performers etc., really gave it something beyond. Tai is an artist who has been making incredible work for years – perhaps a little more under the radar until that point – and this opportunity I think really showed to a much wider audience what she is capable of and it was very energising to see that.

Tai Shani, DC: Semiramis, Installation view, Tramway, Glasgow International 2018. © Keith Hunter. Courtesy the artist

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I would say that perhaps the most rewarding relationships with artists are those that last and where there is a genuine sense of exchange, dialogue and in many respects mutual learning – one where the conversation keeps going. It’s also very rewarding when an exhibition has a big impact for an artist, or has perhaps opened up some new questions or opportunities. Whilst Tai is one example, there are other less appreciated examples that were very rewarding for me. In Blackpool one of the final shows I worked on was with Rob Crosse, now living in Berlin. Whilst the centrepiece of the show was a film commission undertaken with Film and Video Umbrella, we also invited Rob to take on the entire galleries in a solo show. The galleries are specious - around the same size as the Hayward’s upstairs spaces when added together. This encouraged the artist to show photography work, create a towel sculpture/partition, and really take on the space as a whole. Although seen by far fewer people I would also regard that as enormously rewarding experience.

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I would say that risk is at the heart of producing both artwork and exhibitions. If you’re not taking a risk then honestly, what’s the point? I don’t want to go into an exhibition ‘knowing the answer’. In some respects there was a point at which I realised that a lot of what I was doing e.g. in Blackpool was an accumulation of trial and error. How else do you learn? You try something out, it might work, it might fail and in many respects the times when it fails are the times when you’re really learning. Sometimes this risk can be difficult for other reasons, as in the case of Jennet Thomas’s exhibition at the Grundy, which was effectively postponed (at the time it was described as censorship) due to complaints from politicians that its content was propaganda and not artwork. This took over a year of hard work, conversations and struggle to enable the show to proceed, helped by figures such as Guardian cartoonist Martin Rowson (upon whose work the show was a point of inspiration) coming to the town in support of it. It also helped to have had an artist in Jennet who was so committed to the project and whom had the reserves of patience to work with us towards a new date.

Another example that I think is important here is the online programme in lieu of GI this year. This is something that came about after the big shock and disappointment of the festival not going ahead. Myself and the curatorial team (Poi Marr and Nora Almes) had absolutely no time to think about it and so it was very intuitive, although of course we had been thinking about and working on the programme for many months so it would be wrong to say it came out of nowhere. We were lucky to have a wonderful digital consultant (Leah Silverlock) who helped us to come up with the format of taking over the website homepage, amongst other things. The artists all responded in an extraordinary way and I still can’t quite believe what they were able to pull off at such short notice and with so much going on in everyone’s lives, it really was incredible.

Jennet Thomas,The Unspeakable Freedom Device, 2014, Installation view: Grundy Art Gallery, Courtesy the artist

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

Usually, I would have to say that the exhibition you are working on currently is always the favourite – or most important – at any given moment.  At the moment, with the postponement, it’s easy to feel in a kind of strange limbo. That said, I’ve been doing a fair amount of reflection and looking back recently and there are certain shows that stand out for different reasons. These are not always shows I’ve curated – such as Psycho Buildings (2008) at the Hayward, curated by Ralph Rugoff. I came on board as Assistant Curator with only a few months to go and with HUGE amounts still to do. It was conceived in a pre-financial crash environment and feels like a kind of end-of-an-era show now, in terms of the budgets and the scale of the works. The ambition was phenomenal and it was exhilarating. Whilst working on large shows in the main Hayward Gallery I also curated smaller more under-the-radar shows around the Southbank, which allowed much more scope for personal development as a curator. Favourites here were Olivier Castel who has a truly expansive imagination and also Sara MacKillop in the Saison Poetry Library. In Blackpool I felt phenomenally invested in every show, but looking back now I have a particular fondness for the first one I did, simply called ‘Collections Show’ in which we invited members of the public to show their collections of things. It ended up being a kind of portrait of a collective unconscious of a place, in a fascinating and quite touching way. Heather Phillipson was another highlight – a show which came to us from Baltic and was technically very complex, including craning a car inside the building on its side. Some of Heather’s work is now in the Grundy Collection and what was amazing was coming back recently having artists living in the area talking to me about that show and how important it was for them.

Heather Phillipson, A Is to D What E Is to H, 2011–13, Installation view, yes, surprising is existence in the post-vegetal cosmorama -, 2013, Grundy Art Gallery, Courtesy the artist

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

For me, one of the things that art does, is that it has the power to show you something – communicated in a way that is beyond and outside of text – to show you something important that you didn’t realise that you needed to know. Or perhaps that you always knew but had never had brought to the surface. I hope I’ve been involved in exhibitions where this has happened.

Do you help fundraise for the show you curate & if so how?

I would say 80%+ of what I spend my time doing is fundraising – it’s goes without saying that it’s in way the main part of what I do. I’ve never worked in a team where there is a development role so I’ve always needed to do all or a significant proportion of the fundraising or managing relationships with funders. This is a mixture of working with state funders such as local authorities, government departments, Arts Council England or Creative Scotland, or trusts and foundations, or sometimes with private donors. A new thing for me coming to Glasgow was the editions, which have the potentially to be hugely important for fundraising. We have been trying to find ways of bringing in income through taking part in art fairs – all of which feels like a distant memory right now!

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

I’m never very comfortable with this term emerging – like someone’s coming out of a flowerpot or something.  But thinking about early career artists I would say that Glasgow is an incredibly exciting place in this regard. This year’s programme would have seen (and will see next year) exhibitions that I was really looking forward to by the likes of Sekai Machache, Andrew Sim, Liv Fontaine, Andrew Black and Aman Sandhu to name a handful. Someone was describing to me that they felt the GI programme carried a sense of urgency and I think this is latent in these artists’ work, albeit in very different ways. I think that another artist at a very interesting point in their career is Urara Tsuchiya. Urara has been working away in Glasgow for years and is fairly established here but is only just now coming to the consciousness of a wider public outside of the city.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

I hope I have a few suggestions that I can offer but in all honesty it is usually artists who are telling me about amazing things they’ve come across. I like to be responsive to each artist that I’m working with - what can be enjoyable is when you establish a connection with an artist’s practice, and then can tune suggestions to that specifically. Going back to the first question I’ve personally been really enjoying the daily updates from the ICA as nourishment through lockdown.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

Please be patient with us! Following on from the point about fundraising, the tricky thing is that there is often far less time than you would like for the actual job of curating, e.g. for researching and then working with an artist and giving them your attention. This is particularly so when (as in my past two roles) I have both curated exhibitions and been responsible for the organisation as a whole. This can lead to a relative paucity of both time and also mental space, as you’re juggling and working through so many decisions at any given time. It’s a tricky thing as institutions can seem big and grand, with snazzy graphics and the like, but the reality often is that it’s a handful of people there holding the whole thing together and juggling a million things, most of which are unseen. I think that it’s important that for both sides undertaking a show is a big deal – nothing is going to be entered into lightly without a lot of forethought. I would also say that it means a lot to a curator when the dialogue and exchange doesn’t finish when the exhibition does.

Follow Richard on Instagram and Twitter @rhmparry @Gifestival


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Interview: BETH BATE

I first knew of Beth Bate when she was Director of Great North Run Culture (2004-2015), running an annual series of contemporary arts projects, events and exhibitions, celebrating sport and art. Beth had a great reputation for commissioning and supporting brilliant artists, including Iain Forsyth and Jane Pollard, featured in my first blog post. I knew that she was responsible for creating a positive experience for artists, establishing collaborative partnerships, and raising money to enable them to make ambitious work for new contexts in the North.

I vividly recall meeting Beth in 2013, at Bedwyr Williams' exhibition The Starry Messenger, at the 55th Venice Biennale. I was representing Bedwyr at the time and was thrilled to have supported him and the Wales in Venice team in delivering such a fantastic exhibition. Beth brought a group with her to see the show and it was such a pleasure to be greeted by her with such warmth, enthusiasm for Bedwyr's work and recognition of the efforts that had gone into making the show and launch event. I have since learned that Beth is always a joy to both meet and work with.

She is passionate about helping artists realise their vision and is committed to the importance of art and creativity for all. She is kind and generous with all she meets, putting people at ease with a great sense of humour and can-do approach to getting things done.

I had the pleasure of working with Beth when I was at Simon Lee Gallery, supporting artist Clare Woods on her solo exhibition at DCA. I also loved visiting Beth's fantastic two-site exhibition with Mark Wallinger at DCA, Dundee and Fruitmarket Gallery, Edinburgh. She is a tour-de-force and her responses below reflect that she is up for making change happen, fast.

Beth Bate, Photo Caroline-Briggs.

Beth is Director of Dundee Contemporary Arts, home to contemporary art galleries, a two-screen cinema, a print studio, learning and engagement programme, shop, and café bar. Beth was a member of the British Pavilion selection panel for the Venice Biennale, now postponed to 2022, and is a Trustee of Edinburgh Art Festival and a member of the Scotland Advisory Committee for the British Council. She was a Fellow of the Clore Leadership Programme in 2014-15.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

My concentration has been fairly shot over the last few months and the large novels in my reading pile remain unfinished. Instead I’ve found short stories and poems more accessible and rewarding. I’ve enjoyed Miranda July’s No one Belongs Here More Than You and Olivia Laing’s Art In An Emergency. DCA’s Head of Exhibitions Eoin Dara gave me a book of Leonora Carrington’s short stories for my birthday which lifted my mind into other imaginative spaces, and it was a joy to reread Edwin Morgan’s work in what would have been his centenary year.

Since lockdown, I realised how much of the film, TV, and music I usually consume is done whilst travelling. Being at home with my partner and children over these months means this changed. When Disney+ launched, we started to watch all The Simpsons from the start, which is the best family-unifying TV, and heavens knows we’ve all needed a good laugh now and then. DCA’s Head of Cinema Alice Black recommended Babylon Berlin to me which I’m a little obsessed with. It’s a fantastically well written, grimy detective thriller set in the Weimar Republic, with music by Bryan Ferry.

I have been shielding for quite a while now, so my connection with the outside world has been quite problematic. As soon as guidance allowed, I started cycling again. I was training for some events this summer which aren’t happening now but being able to get out and exhaust myself again has been hugely important. I’m currently back at my parents in the Black Mountains in Wales and rediscovering the landscape here, on two wheels, has been special. I’ll be taking part in the Rapha Women’s 100 in September – focusing on a challenge keeps me positive.

Beth Bate, Photo Alberto Bernasconi

How have recent world events affected your ideas, processes, habits, ambition, or methodologies?

My brain doesn’t really work in terms of formal methodologies, but ideas come thick and fast. I’ve been reflecting on resilience – on what it takes to make it through extremely difficult circumstances, how we remain strong whilst both accepting and showing vulnerability. I’ve also been considering care – how we act on what others need and, importantly, how we listen to our own needs. The only way to make it through these extraordinary circumstances has been to listen and communicate carefully and to be accepting of where people find themselves. I’ll hold onto these reflections long after we reach the next normal. I’ve thought a lot about why we need arts institutions and what we have lacked throughout lockdown. We have long been able to use technology to facilitate elements of cultural engagement and I have sometimes enjoyed being able to stay in touch with what’s happening in this way. But it is the proximity to art and other audiences that many of us have missed. I’ve particularly been thinking about how important it is that we ensure that this physical experience is accessible to as many people as possible, and how we continue to embrace digital solutions to ensure that those who can’t visit venues can still have meaningful engagement with art.

What will you do more of?

I will really, truly appreciate what it means to have a shared, collective experience with other people. I find the thought of sitting in a cinema, or being in a gallery, with others, albeit at a distance, is hugely moving. I will love the lines in faces, the folds in clothes, the tones in voices around me – all the things I have missed so much over this period.

What will you do less of?

I will be less likely to think that change isn’t possible – that significant shifts must take time. They can do of course but we’ve also seen over the last few months that huge, vital, cultural change can start very quickly, and that those of us who can be part of effecting change, who have power and privilege, have a responsibility to keep making that happen.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your work? What do you care about?

I believe that art and culture can change people’s lives for the better – as artists and as audiences. I had first-hand experience of this as a teenager where cultural engagement, particularly through youth theatre and a couple of key gallery visits, totally changed my life and what I thought was possible. Everyone should have that opportunity. I care about working with committed people to make things happen, whether supporting artists to make projects, building relationships to keep growing and connecting, bringing work to audiences, amplifying voices that are often overlooked, fundraising to develop what we do, because I believe in it – it’s all part of it.

Lorna Macintyre, Pieces of You Are Here, 2018, DCA, Photo Ruth Clark

What would you like to be remembered for?

For getting things done, for having clear ideas, for listening to others, and for making a top notch negroni.

What do you think that art institutions should provide artists and the public?

Our responsibilities lie squarely with artists and the public: our role is to support artists to make their ideas manifest, and to provide safe, welcoming spaces, open to everyone to encounter art. Through this, people can engage with ideas, challenges, connections, new ways of thinking and being, reflections on how we move through the world, and perhaps also the pleasure of responding and making their own art. And yes, art institutions should provide… but we also need to listen and act on what we hear. These relationships with people are what keep us vibrant and relevant.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from visiting your organisation, or one of your exhibitions or events?

First and foremost, I would hope that they enjoyed their time, that they found it interesting. I would want them to feel looked after, and that they’d have encountered something that they might not have otherwise – a view, an idea, a glimpse of the world, whether it’s on a quick ten minute walk around the gallery on a lunch break, or a longer experience, an event or screening.

MARK WALLINGER MARK, 2017, Installation view, DCA, Photo Ruth Clark

What kind of change would you like to be responsible for now?

I want to work harder to address people’s access needs. There are some individuals and organisations who do this brilliantly. But for every one that does, there are so many more that don’t. We are now all adapting our buildings and programmes to make them safely accessible for as many people as possible, in a way that was hitherto unimaginable. If an institution now said, “Don’t visit us if you are in a vulnerable health group, we can’t afford to keep our building as clean as you need”, there would be understandable uproar. Yet the costs and effort involved in making some public places fully accessible have been used as reasons – as excuses – not to do so for years. Disability and access campaigners have long been making the case for change and, as a sector, we have, frankly, not been very good at listening. Now we all have shared access needs and we all want to know what organisations are doing to keep us safe when we visit: let’s take that listening and learning, and make sure we are welcoming to everyone.

Shonky: The Aesthetics of Awkwardness, 2018, Guest curated by John Walter, Installation view, DCA

What methods do you use to develop, test, or scope your ideas?

After reading Susan Cain’s book Quiet a few years ago, I realised I am a classic extrovert who needs time and solitude to recharge and recoup. My quiet time, alone, particularly when swimming or cycling, is when my thoughts settle and start to form into ideas and plans. It’s then important that I’m able to discuss these with people I trust and who understand how I work. Having a brilliant team at DCA is central to this, and there are others in my wider network who I can take ideas to for development and feedback – or immediate consignment to the bin.

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

It’s a combination of reading and online research, of visiting exhibitions, biennales and degree shows, of word of mouth… it’s rare that I would visit somewhere in any capacity and not seek out an exhibition or do a studio visit. And as for what finally makes me want to work with someone, there is no set formula. The quality of the work is foremost. But the relationship with an artist is key. Sometimes this will develop over months and years until we find the right project to make together. There are artists I wanted to work with when I first arrived at DCA in 2016 whose shows will be realised this year, and next. Other times it’s instantaneous and we can make something together very quickly, which is exciting. It comes down to the connection and relationship, to how the work will connect with our audiences, and to a balance within our overall programme.

Clare Woods, Victim of Geography, 2017, DCA, Photo by Erika Stevenson

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

This is incredibly hard to choose because I am immensely proud of the programme that we have delivered at DCA. Clare Wood’s solo show Victim of Geography in 2017 was very important to me – it was the first time DCA had presented a major painting show and a solo show by a woman for some time, and it saw the start of a significant balancing of the programme in a number of important ways. The publication we made with poetry by RW Paterson and a text by Anouchka Grose also marked a shift in how we work with writers and has developed into an important strand of commissioning experimental writing. Another important favourite was Alberta Whittle’s show How flexible can we make the mouth in 2019, for which Alberta was awarded a Turner Bursary by Tate just a few weeks ago. Alberta spent time in DCA Print Studio, developing work for the exhibition with our Head of Print Studio, Annis Fitzhugh, and talks wonderfully about how that specific, supportive environment played an important role in the development of her practice and the show. It’s a brilliant example of how we can support artists and the impact their work goes on to have.

Alberta Whitle, How Flexible Can We Make the Mouth, 2019, DCA, Photo Ruth Clark

Which organisations, institutions, or leaders (from arts or business) do you draw strength and inspiration from?

I draw strength and inspiration from all sorts of places and people. I was a Fellow of the Clore Leadership Programme and my cohort are a huge source of support – leaders in their fields, who know me far too well, who I can always turn to. My best friend Abigail Priddle, who I met on our first day at university, is a Commissioning Editor at the BBC, and is a rock and a sounding board. Within Scotland, Tessa Giblin from Talbot Rice Gallery, Sam Woods and Fiona Bradley from Fruitmarket Gallery, and Katrina Brown from The Common Guild, have all given me strength and inspiration- our various negroni and martini fuelled Zoom sessions have energised me and, importantly, made me smile. Mark Ball, Creative Director at Manchester International Festival, and Maria Balshaw, Director at Tate, are old friends and have been on the end of the phone to help with dilemmas, which I’m always grateful for. Artists Alberta Whittle and Clare Woods are huge sources of inspiration – their determination and resilience, their care and openness, and their intelligence and wit.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

First and foremost, I would hope that they enjoyed their time, that they found it interesting. I would want them to feel looked after, and that they’d have encountered something that they might not have otherwise – a view, an idea, a glimpse of the world, whether it’s on a quick ten minute walk around the gallery on a lunch break, or a longer experience, an event or screening.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

Be clear about what you want; ask for advice and support when you need it; work with organisations that will support you and reflect your values, who are proud to work with you and champion your work.

Follow Beth on Instagram @bethbate @DCAdundee and on Twitter @beth_bate @DCAdundee and visit



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And do subscribe to our newsletter for a monthly round-up of some useful creative hacks, insights, opportunities, and introductions. At the end of each month we host a free special 30 minute online subscriber event on Zoom, providing subscribers with the opportunity to meet and ask Ceri Hand questions about creative careers or in relation to mentoring.

This month’s event will take place on Friday 31 July at 11am.

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I first met Christian Viveros-Fauné in 2004, when I was Director of Exhibitions at FACT in Liverpool and we were launching Bjørn Melhus’ first UK solo show. Christian represented Bjørn at the time through his gallery, Roebling Hall, (based in Brooklyn, New York).

At dinner together, with Bjørn’s German Gallerist, Anita Beckers, I was struck by Christian’s mischievous playfulness, his passion for art and social justice, his distrust of the mainstream and delight in discussing political issues intertwined with pop-nonsense over a glass of wine or two.

We share an allergy to artworld baloney, enabling as many people as possible to experience culture and for having fun along the way. Christian has donned many arty hats and remains consistently curious, committed to artists and is a fervent believer in the power of the arts.

I kept in touch with Christian, visiting his gallery in NYC, participating in international art fairs together, (including one he was running, VOLTA). In 2010 I invited him to curate an exhibition at my gallery in Liverpool, which he playfully titled Spasticus Artisticus. Christian and Jota Castro produced an accompanying catalogue (thanks to Jota’s generosity) and an after-show performance by French all-girl punk band, Furious Golden Shower, at my friend Natalie Haywood’s café-bar LEAF. The brilliantly shambolic gig included several annihilated, nearly naked male curators. They strutted in heels, feather boas and manky pants, provoking and titillating the crowd, reeling, and writhing as go-go dancers gone wrong. The peculiar punk cocktail was exhilarating yet revealed a distant, prudish art crowd, who seemed to find it rubber-neckingly torturous. I think the wicked joy Christian and I derive from flouting the rules that bind us may cement our friendship.

Christian Viveros-Fauné (Santiago, 1965) has worked as a gallerist, art fair director, art critic and curator since 1994. He was awarded Kennedy Family Visiting Fellowship in 2018, a Creative Capital/Warhol Foundation Grant for short-form arts writing in 2009, named Art Critic in Residence at the Bronx Museum in 2011, and has lectured at Yale University, Pratt Institute, and Amsterdam’s Gerrit Rietveld Academie. Viveros-Fauné is Chief Critic for Artland and writes regularly for ArtReview; Sotheby’s/Art Agency Partners’s in other words and The Art Newspaper. He presently serves as Curator-at-Large at the University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum and Visiting Critic at the NYU Steinhardt Department of Art and Education. He has curated numerous museum exhibitions around the world and is the author of several books. His most recent, Social Forms: A Short History of Political Art, was published by David Zwirner Books in 2018.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

Not sure I’m doing anything with a view to staying positive, since I’m finding “positivity” a bit elusive these days, but I am doing a fair bit of reading on what I think are genuinely pressing concerns. Among the books I’m head-down into are David Wallace-Wells’ The Uninhabitable Earth, a recent bestseller about global warming; Sarah M. Broom’s The Yellow House, a memoir of growing up Black in New Orleans; Isabel Wilkerson’s The Warmth of Other Suns, a history of America’s Great Migration (the movement of six million African-Americans from the rural South to the industrialized North); José Luis Alonso Marchante’s Menéndez: King of Patagonia, a history of conquest and genocide in Chile and Argentina; and Francisco de Goya’s collected Letters to Martín Zapater. The worse things get, the more I turn to Goya, whom I consider to be an amazingly astute philosopher of the visual, as deep or deeper than anything the French and German Enlightenment produced. One historian wrote that, had Goya been born in Germany, he would have given Hegel a run for his money as a man of letters. The fact that he was born in Southern Europe kept him away from the habits but also the pitfalls of systematizing rationality. Another silver lining: Goya arrived at a critique of instrumental reason predating the Frankfurt School’s Dialectic of Enlightenment by 150 years. What is Goya’s The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters if not that? I derive genuine optimism from the idea that thinking generously, like Goya did, produces salutary patterns of critical thinking that we can all fall back on at perilous times like these.

William Villalongo, We Can't Breathe, 2015. Silkscreen on velour paper mounted on coloring book pages with acrylic wash. 12 x 9 in. each / 60 x 27 in. overall (30.48 x 22.86 cm each / 152.4 x 68.58 cm overall). Courtesy of ©Villalongo Studio LLC and Susan Inglett Gallery, NYC. Photo by Argenis Apolinario, NYC. Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I care about beauty, expansively understood. Rather than being the last refuge of conservative aesthetics, the beautiful promotes thoughtful attention to the particular, to difference, as well as to comparisons that, in their fullness, require both contextual and historical study. To quote Elaine Scarry quoting Iris Murdoch “beauty prepares us for justice.” Since social justice and the expansion of civic engagement through the arts is something I am passionate about, I find myself, year in and year out, pushing for formally resolved art that engages the world—“eye candy with content” or “brain-candy with content,” in the case of conceptual art. Beauty, generously considered, doesn’t just embrace every possible art form and medium—from painting to comics to performance and social practice—it also encourages a radically egalitarian ideal, much as math and astrophysics do. Though the humanities have stupidly shelved discussions of “the beautiful” and “simplicity,” these are categories that are still discussed in leading laboratories to important scientific and egalitarian effect.

Cristina Lucas, La Anarquista (The Anarchist), from the series The Old Order, 2004. Courtesy of the artist.
Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

I have a few basic ideas I go to the well for again and again. They include, as mentioned, curatorial takes on art and politics, but also discussions of the beautiful, though for me these notions remain indissolubly linked. Both ideas cohere for me in the concept of “social forms,” which, not so accidentally, is the title of my last book (Social Forms: A Short History of Art and Politics, David Zwirner Books, 2018). The best way I find to develop specific curatorial ideas from these concerns is to write them out. My training as a writer basically forces me to do that, so no surprise there. I workshop my ideas by putting them down on paper; that’s how I make connections, contemporaneously, art historically, socially, politically, but also with an eye to the culture at large. I am nothing if not a big believer in making exhibitions that widen access to visual art.

Gran Sur: Chilean Contemporary Art from the Engel Collection, Installation view, Alcalá 31, Madrid, Spain, 2020

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Sometimes I find artists; other times they find me. Our meetings are always a melding of the minds, even when I’m helping put together historical shows or a biennial. For the latter, I insist of having enough work—at least three or four examples from an artist’s production—to get as complete a sense as possible of the artist’s oeuvre. As much as I value my job, I reject the idea of the curator’s authorial voice. Exhibitions, perforce, are collaborations, even when someone is appointed chef d’oeuvre. I’ve been lucky enough to work with a number of artists repeatedly. Together we arrive at ways of materializing mutual concerns, so that artworks, though properly thematized, are never reducible to my ideas. What I’m saying here seems obvious enough, but in practice I find that both experts and laypeople often get it wrong.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

Curators have a responsibility to read their audiences. They do this not just to give the public what they want, but hopefully to expand and even test their audiences. Pushing the limits on what an art public wants, or says they want, is akin to what artists do for curators and critics. Surprise—an experience I’ve found to be in increasingly short supply—is as fundamental to art audiences as it is for experts in the field. Art should aspire to the condition of eternal surprise. To quote one mid-20th century proto-curator, art is news that stays news.

Ellen Harvey, The Disappointed Tourist: Black Wall Street, 2020. Oil and acrylic on Gessoboard, 18 x 24 in (45.7 x 61 cm). Courtesy of the artist. Photo by Ellen Harvey
Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

The best artist-curator relationships are ones that develop over time. They are friendships forged through the joint public performance of shared ideas. I say performance because the making of artworks and their attendant concepts, planning, texts, supports, logistics, installations, educational missions, etc., are just some of the things that go into making successful exhibitions. The nature of an art exhibition is highly performative. Curators, in that sense, function as the producers for the artist’s solo (or group) act, setting the stage for the best live performance ever. Often, those same producers, read curators, have also had a hand in shaping the artist’s songbook.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

The best exhibitions I’ve been involved in push the envelope on the envelope; by which I mean that they reinterpret the brief of the exhibition and the physical contours of the space it occupies. Sometimes that involves getting a genuinely novel read on a set of given artworks or a historical period; at others it involves expanding the physical possibilities of a gallery, a building or public space. At the best of times you get to—or are forced by circumstances—to do both. In my experience, those situations are in equal measure hair-raising and exhilarating.

Pasted photograph by Fabio Bucciarelli for the New York Times and illustration by Jeremyville on Allen St, Manhattan, © Benjamin Petit. Courtesy of Dysturb
Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I don’t kiss and tell, so no names, but I love, LOVE, many of the artists I have professional relationships with. I believe in them and I am lucky enough to think that they believe in me. My working assumption is that they find me to be a good conversationalist and a decent interlocutor; someone they can bounce ideas off of who is responsible enough to trust with their projects. Amazingly, those artists and I have found that we have gotten to make shows and books together more than once, which is a truly rewarding thing. I’m pretty sure I learn much more from them than they do from me.

Jake and Dinos Chapman, The Disasters of Yoga II, 2019. Francisco de Goya Disasters of War. Selections from portfolio of eighty etchings reworked and improved with collage. Courtesy of Jake and Dinos Chapman, photographed by Ken Copsey. Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I once tried to curate an art fair by picking artists from galleries and having the galleries foot the bill. It was the early 2000s, so the galleries let me, to mixed results. I’ve put that one on the good try shelf.

Gran Sur: Chilean Contemporary Art from the Engel Collection, Installation view, Alcalá 31, Madrid, Spain, 2020

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

Unsurprisingly, the bigger projects I’ve done have been the most challenging. I curated a short lived but gargantuan biennial in Dublin (Dublin Contemporary 2011), and recently put together the largest ever exhibition of contemporary art from Chile (Gran Sur: Chilean Contemporary Art From the Engel Collection, at Alcalá 31 in Madrid through July 26). They both involved scores of artists and artworks and, generally speaking, a lot of moving parts. To that I can now add Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, a 50+ artist virtual show hosted by the University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum, where I serve as Curator-at-Large (available at through December 12). All of these shows have stretched my capacities as a thinker and an intellectual in the public sphere.

Narsiso Martinez, Good Farms, 2020. Courtesy of the artist and Charlie James Gallery, Los Angeles. Photo by Joshua Schaedel, Michael Underwood.
Featured in Life During Wartime: Art in the Age of Coronavirus, University of South Florida Contemporary Art Museum

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

I hope that they make direct connections from the art they encounter to the wider world. Whether we are talking about painting, sculpture, dance, installation, video, or any other medium, art should push people to think beyond the confines of the gallery or museum. My job, as I see it, is not unlike that of a fiction editor: to promote art as an exploration of human experience as revealed through formal values.

Do you help fundraise for the show you curate & if so how?

Rarely. But, for what it’s worth, a number of the recent shows I’ve organized and am organizing at USFCAM have received important grants funding.

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

I will name names here, at the risk of forgetting folks, which I invariably will. There’s the London-based painter Francisco Rodriguez Pino, the Paris-based video artist Enrique Ramirez, the Cuban artivist Luis Manuel Otero Alcántara, the California painter and installation artist Narsiso Rodriguez, the Chilean multimedia artist Pilar Quinteros, the Miami-based video artist Edison Peñafiel, the Nicaraguan conceptualist Marcos Agudelo, the New York-based sculptor Kennedy Yanko, the Philadelphia-based painter and cartoonist Mark Thomas Gibson, the photographers Curran Hatleberg, Zora J. Murff and Anastasia Samoylova—who live and work, respectively, in Baltimore, Fayetteville, Arkansas, and Miami. I’ve had the good fortune to work with all of them and others during the last six months, and they’ve each reminded me of two things that should be head-slappingly obvious: one, there’s always something new under the sun; and, two, Ecclesiastes is overrated.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Look. Look a lot. Visit as many gallery and museum exhibitions as you can. Not only are they free resources (let’s leave U.S. museums out of the discussion for now), they are the best places to have visual encounters that will, artistically speaking, flip your lid. These spaces serve as literal libraries of the visual and should be understood as such. One of the few silver linings of the global COVID-19 quarantine is that many of these museums and galleries have established a parallel online presence. That means that, while this miserable lockdown continues, folks can explore these same libraries all over the world from the safety of their homes.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

If possible, establish a partnership, and work with folks you trust and get on with. Life’s too damn short for networking.

Follow Christian on Instagram @cviverosfaune and visit his website

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I first met Alkistis Tsampouraki in 2015, when we both worked at Simon Lee Gallery in London.

We shared a passion for learning, of facing fears, of not taking ourselves too seriously and to having fun, whilst making weird(er) things happen in the world. Alkistis is kind, considerate, loyal, and often hilariously honest. She has a great eye and is committed to supporting artists reaching new audiences internationally.


Alkistis Tsampouraki (left) with Anouchka Grose at the opening reception of Enrique Martinez Celaya’s exhibition The Mariner’s Meadow at Blain | Southern, London, May 2019

Alkistis Tsampouraki was born in Athens, Greece and has lived in London for the past 7 years. She completed her MA in History of Art at University College London, specialising in Expressionism, New Objectivity and Dada in Weimar Germany. She is a Video Programme Consultant for OUTERNET London, an arts and culture venue which will be launched in September 2020. From 2018-2019 she was working as an Artist & Museum Liaison at Blain Southern Gallery London/Berlin/New York and from 2015-2018 she was an Artist Liaison at Simon Lee Gallery London/Hong Kong/New York supporting artists internationally in strategising and building their careers. She has worked closely with emerging and established artists, prioritising commissioning and exhibiting new work, including off-site projects and installations, touring exhibitions and publishing catalogues, and editions. From September 2020 she will be Associate Director of Exhibitions & Special Projects at the Breeder Gallery, Athens.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now, that is helping you to stay positive?

I am based in Athens, Greece and although the Covid crisis was more manageable here than in the UK we still had to spend more than two months in quarantine. I did a lot of reading during this time and the things I enjoyed the most was reading about Leonora Carrington’s life and more specifically The Seventh Horse which is a collection of her amazing short stories as well as Alejandro Jodorowsky’s account of Leonora's vital spiritual guidance for his life and work in The Spiritual Journey of Alejandro Jodorowsky. I also watched the documentary series Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth which are six one-hour conversations between Joseph Campbell and journalist Bill Moyers. I love Campbell’s work and it fascinates me how in both ancient and contemporary religions and mythologies we still seek answers to the same set of questions.

Toby Ziegler, The Genesis Speech, 2017, Installation view, Freud Museum, London. Courtesy of the artist and Freud Museum, Photo Peter Mallet

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to the gallery? What do you care about?

My role is usually to keep a balance between the artists’ and the gallery’s needs and maintain a trustworthy relationship. Because an artist-gallery relationship is somewhat like a marriage that requires commitment even when things might get dysfunctional, I think what artists appreciate even more than bringing results is honesty, consistency with what you promise and integrity. So these are the most important values I bring to my work.

What do you enjoy the most about working with commercial galleries?

I like being part of a diverse team with a combination of people who are coming from different backgrounds and channels and who when putting their efforts together can achieve a certain goal. A commercial gallery can often also offer the resources needed to materialize projects and ideas. Personally, I have worked on a couple of institutional and public projects that wouldn’t be realised without the support of a commercial gallery. Still, this sometimes might lead to other imbalances but that’s another discussion…

Clare Woods, Rehumanised, 2018, Simon Lee Gallery, Hong Kong, Courtesy of the artist and Simon Lee Gallery, Photo Kitmin Lee

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I think that there is no fixed recipe for success here. What makes me take real interest in someones’ work is that one of the ideas behind it is 'zeitgeisty' so to speak and that it somehow captures the present moment.

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

My role is to support an artist in building their career and profile not only through the gallery’s exhibitions and activities but internationally. So depending on each artist’s ambitions, I support them with day to day studio communication, production of artworks, catalogue production and distribution, research, development and implementation of public art projects, with establishing strategic partnerships with national and international institutions, with securing residency programmes, as well as with introducing curators, journalists and collectors to their work. Working closely with artists and having a more personal relationship also means that you often have to navigate through difficulties and challenges with them and offer emotional support.

Ali Banisadr, Foreign Lands, 2019, Installation view, Het Noordbrabants Museum, Den Bosch, The Netherlands,  Courtesy of the artist and Het Noordbrabants Museum, Photo Joep Jacobs

What sales channels do you find work best for your artists?

A lot of galleries are focusing lately on digital platforms for reaching out to new audiences and widening their collectors base and it is true that some of these channels are successful. Especially now with the Covid situation these practices are becoming even more popular. Then art fairs are a major international hub for promoting someone’s work. But from my experience, the most successful route for nurturing lasting relationships with collectors is to cultivate their understanding and engagement with an artist’s practice by building his/her profile steadily and slowly through exhibitions, in conversation events, publications etc.

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I feel lucky in that sense, because I had the opportunity to work with amazing artists that were also incredible humans. With some of them I developed a more personal bond where there was a lot of trust and respect. When you really know someone and know their work and you manage to deliver something important to them, it is much more rewarding than just doing your job well. It’s like helping a dear friend and I find this very fulfilling.

What risks have you taken that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

A few months ago I decided to leave a promising career in London and move back to Athens. It’s certainly difficult adapting to a new reality, but it’s important to do what feels right for you even when the world disagrees. I wouldn’t say however that this hasn’t gone well so far, but it was definitely a big risk for me and the outcome still remains to be seen.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

The last months I have been developing and researching an exhibition concept. More than the curatorial idea, I am focused on how I want people to engage with what they see. I think that today we are more than ever detached from our intuition when perceiving things around us. When looking at a work of art, in many cases our first reaction is an attempt to analyze or de-contextualise what we see, stripping away its magical power. When this exhibition materialises, I really hope that it will give people permission to have a relationship with art that is of the spirit and not just of the mind, where feeling is privileged over knowing.

Do you have any advice for artists?

To stay real, focused and committed to their practice.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

The answer can vary depending on the stage of someone’ s career. For an artist that is at the beginning of his/her career path, I think it’s helpful to follow the work of writers, curators etc. whose activity is close to their own quest; to be part of group shows with other artists with whom they share the same curiosity; to have a good online presence and in general to be active and out there. Residencies are also always a great way of building a network and opening up to new markets and territories. Although it can be challenging, when someone puts effort and good energy out there, their work will be noticed and gallerists will come after the artist rather than the other way around.

Follow Alkistis @alkistis_tsab @the_breeder_gallery

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And do subscribe to our newsletter for a monthly round-up of some useful creative hacks, insights, opportunities, and introductions. At the end of each month we host a free special 30 minute online subscriber event on Zoom, providing subscribers with the opportunity to meet and ask Ceri Hand any questions about creative careers or questions you might have in relation to mentoring.

Feel free to email or contact us via socials @cerihand

Coming Next...

An interview with Christian Viveros-Fauné (Santiago, 1965), gallerist, art fair director, art critic and curator.


Interview: AARON CEZAR

I met Aaron Cezar in 2007 when we were both working at Metal with Jude Kelly.

As well as being in awe of his incredible creative career as a dancer, I was blown away by his input, support, patience, and incredible ability to stay calm during what some people might call creative chaos. He is the man you want by your side, period. As well as making space, time and amazing things happen for artists, whatever the context, he has a steely determination behind a relaxed, winning smile, securing results every time. He is kind, welcoming to all and always makes me laugh.

Aaron Cezar, Photo Tim Bowditch

Aaron is the founding Director of Delfina Foundation, where he develops, curates, and oversees its interrelated programme of residencies, exhibitions, and public platforms.

Aaron has also curated offsite exhibitions, performances, and programmes for example at Hayward Gallery Project Space, SongEun Artspace, ArtBo, and Art Dubai. As part of the official public programme of the 58th Venice Art Biennale, he conceived the opening week and final weekend performances with Ralph Rugoff.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

It’s easy to become consumed by the news, social media, and one’s own personal outrage fuelled by the state of the world right now. I find solace in music and movement. I studied dance. Singing has always been part of my family. My mother had most of my siblings and me in the church choir. Mass started at 7am!

It’s been cathartic for me to get back in touch with my body and voice – and in fun ways, from taking online dance classes to learning choreography from 1990s music videos to singing karaoke.

In terms of music playlists, I have been listening to those coming out of recent music battles organised by Swizz Beatz and Timbaland via @verzuztv’s Instagram. My favs have been Babyface versus Teddy Riley; Erykah Badu versus Jill Scott; and Kirk Franklin versus Fred Hammond – this last one bringing me back to my gospel roots (though, we wished our choir sounded as good).

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

Much of my work hinges on storytelling often through or around social issues. One of the drivers of my work is creating new narratives or bringing to light old ones that have been forgotten or are worth being re-examined. All of this involves some level of performativity and performance has featured heavily in my curatorial projects. Performance is more than a medium, it is a process through which we navigate, interpret, accept, or resist the world around us. I think of performance in the widest sense, from daily routines to religious rituals to protest to live art itself.

If I had to name a few projects where these interests have come together, it would be Staging Histories which has so far produced two projects looking at the history of performance in relation to major events in the Arab region, one was presented at Delfina Foundation and the other at Hayward Gallery’s Project Space. I would also cite my most recent project at the 58th Venice Biennale – a performance art series as part of the official public programme that looked at identity politics through the concepts of nationality, gender, and intersectionality. The performances considered the architecture of representation and how language, as articulated through the body and the voice, can reaffirm, or refuse conventions.

Florence Peake and Eve Stainton, Apparition Apparition, 2019.  Performance, Meetings on Art, 58th Venice Biennale, 2019,
Credit Riccardo Banfi. Courtesy Delfina Foundation and Arts Council England

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

Delfina Foundation is my largest and longest curatorial project. It is quite consuming, even after 13 years and with an amazing team. My ideas are sparked through conversations with colleagues, artists, and peers. Most of these ideas become embedded into the organisation’s work. The others I save for myself and independent projects, though these often overlap.

Through Delfina’s residencies, we experiment with different ideas. We have several curatorial themes that have defined our work over the last few years, such as The Politics of Food, which explores the production, consumption and distribution of food as well as food as a medium and metaphor to expose wider social and cultural concerns; Performance as Process which looks at performance as a way of processing the world around us; science_technology_society, which considers the intersection between art, science and technology and new solutions through interdisciplinary collaborations; Collecting as Practice which explores the politics, psychology and philosophy of collecting and the role of collectors and artists in relation collections and archives; and lastly, The Public Domain which interrogates the notion of public space, both in the physical and digital sense.

All these themes have been inspired by artistic practices that we have encountered and contemporary concerns that we share. Some have been initiated by me and others have been developed through teamwork.  All of them are collaborative in spirit, and we often work with external curators and specialists.

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Pre-coronavirus, I had the privilege to travel extensively for research and to attend various biennales and fairs via my work at Delfina Foundation. I often discover artists this way and through a network of peers and other artists, particularly those who have had an association with Delfina Foundation. Our alumni network includes 350 artists and curators around the world.

Still, I get the most exposure to new and diverse artists via our open call for applications at Delfina Foundation.

It’s sometimes hard to put a finger on what makes me decide to work with an artist. For Delfina’s residency programme, its more clear-cut because we have criteria that underlines our selection process and we consider the opportunity that the residency will open up for the artist, personally and professionally. For independent projects, I also get excited when an exhibition or public programme becomes a career-defining opportunity for an artist. Beyond that, I must be drawn to an artist’s way of thinking and their approach in translating research into outcomes. I like to be included in and help shape this process, so I prefer artists who are open to this kind of engagement. Because I tend to have this close relationship to artists, personality matters a lot to me. I want to know who they are – its then easier to help them progress further as well as deal with challenges that might arise.

Power play, 2019, Exhibition installation view. Photo credit Tim Bowditch, Courtesy Delfina Foundation, Korean Cultural Centre UK, and SongEun ArtSpace

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I am firm believer that there is an audience for any artist or artwork. I think my responsibility as a curator is to provide context for the work within a certain narrative or argument.

I always consider how the audience will experience the show. If relevant to the concept, I tend to include different types of media to alter the flow of the show, and I consider exhibition design has a central role in how audiences will perceive the show.

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

As I mentioned before, I often prefer to work closely with artists and provide support and guidance where necessary. Sometimes this involves helping to sketch out the initial framework of an idea or facilitating access to material or archives. Later, my role might include providing references to move the idea along to the next stage or suggesting technical support around production and installation. Working closely with artists can also mean providing some level of emotional support – the process of making work does not always go smoothly. When the work is deeply personal to the artist, there is no separation between ‘work’ and ‘life’.

A Prologue to the Past and Present State of Things, 2015, Installation shot, Delfina Foundation, Credit: Tim Bowditch

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

I am always hoping to do two simple things: (1) contribute to or provoke new discourse / cultural knowledge, and (2) provide a valuable opportunity for the artist(s).

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

Ah – I get asked this question a lot about my favourite artist. I can’t choose!  But the factors that makes a rewarding relationship is having a clear line of communication, a sense of humour, flexibility, trust, and an ability to be objective.

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

Let me start this answer by stating that this example is not of a risk that did not go well but one that I should have taken further! I curated a group show at SongEun Artspace in South Korea almost exactly two years ago entitled Power play, which took its cue from Derrida’s book Politics of Friendship. SongEun has been a partner on a majority of Delfina Foundation’s Korean artist residencies, so when they invited me to curate a show in their space, I naturally wanted to involve a number of these artists, alongside other alumni. In conversation with some of the artists, I realised that some had spent time at Delfina together and continued their friendship beyond the residencies. This sparked an idea to ask three pairs to collaborate and consider the relationship between their practices and the contexts in which they work. Each of these six also presented a solo work alongside four other solo presentations by non-collaborating artists.

For the collaborations, the international artists travelled to Korea for a short residency, hosted by the Korean artists in their homes, and then continued to work virtually, across many different times zones. Everyone reconvened to complete and install the works prior to the show. The process was loaded with risk, but I think it could have been pushed even further and expanded across the whole show with every work coming out of this process (rather than presenting solo works by non-collaborating artists). I have been thinking about reviving this format.

Power play, 2019, Exhibition installation view. Photo credit Tim Bowditch, Courtesy Delfina Foundation, Korean Cultural Centre UK, and SongEun ArtSpace

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

I would single out the performance programme that I co-curated with Ralph Rugoff as part of the official public programme of the 58th Venice Biennale.

This was the first time that Biennale’s public programme incorporated performance art in such a major way, and it was ground-breaking to situate performance among the gardens and in-between spaces of the Arsenale and Giardini. There were many challenges but each reaped rewards.

Ralph gave me a lot of autonomy with the programme, and I was able to work with many artists whose work I had been following for some time like Paul Maheke, boychild, Bo Zheng and Solange. I was also able to draw on works from Delfina’s network of alumni such as Alex Baczynski-Jenkins, Vivian Caccuri, Cooking Sections and Vivien Sansour, as well as our experienced team to help produce the works with the Biennale’s staff.

Do you help fundraise for the show you curate & if so how?

I think that one of the secret skills of a good curator is being resourceful and being well-networked enough to raise funds through co-commissions, tours, individuals, or public bodies. This need not be difficult work.

My ideas are always bigger than the allocated budgets, and so I take it upon myself to work with my team or external organisations to bring more resources to the table.  Power play would not have happened without SongEun’s budget and additional support of Mondriaan Fonds, Goethe Institut, and others. Venice Biennale would not have happened without core support from Arts Council England, alongside countless funders, and the artists’ galleries.

Aaron Cezar in Venice, 2019, Credit Leanne Elliott Young

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

Again, I hate to pick favourites! But, without naming names, I am excited by artists who are collapsing boundaries between art and non-art disciplines, as well as the borders in-between the physical and digital world.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Residencies!  Transartist, ResArtis and Rivet are good places to start.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

Firstly, l would advise that artists carefully consider how the curator is going to contextualise their work in the exhibition/programme.  Request some of the material the curators has been reading to conceptualise the show. If you feel uncomfortable, query their approach while being open to a new interpretation or way of presenting your work.

Be understanding of limitations (e. g. space, budget) and support the curator in their efforts to be resourceful and accommodate everyone. Sometimes in group exhibitions, compromises must be made. Make your own limits clear.

Also be open about your way of working and any potential issues. If you are rubbish at responding to emails or meeting timelines, let the curator know so that he/she/they can plan accordingly, like WhatApping instead of emailing or setting early deadlines. Ask the curator about their flaws too!

Politely voice concerns immediately. Do not let anything fester.

Follow Aaron Cezar on Instagram @theaaroncezar @delfinafdn and Twitter @aaroncezar @delfinafdn

Visit Delfina Foundation website 

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Coming Next...

An interview with...



My clearest memory of meeting Kristin Hjellegjerde was in Manchester Art Gallery in 2012 at the launch of the Manchester Contemporary Art Fair. I can recall thinking how friendly she was and how her eyes seemed to truly represent her, that they reflected both they way she saw the world and you, and what a sincere, enthusiastic and trustworthy woman she was.

I have been delighted to see her programme and success unfold; her unwavering commitment to artists is reflected in the fact she now has four gallery spaces - two in London, one in Berlin and one in Norway.


Photo of Gallerist Kristin Hjellegjerde

Photo by Erica Bergsmeads, make-up Ninni Marklund

Established in 2012, Kristin Hjellegjerde quickly gained recognition as an international gallery dedicated to exhibiting a roster of innovative, international artists, both emerging and established, with strong theoretical and aesthetic bases.

Known for its multicultural curatorial approach, the gallery has, over the past years, fostered close and cooperative relationships with museums and curators worldwide, maintaining a deep devotion to the artists it represents.

Drawing on her own international background, Kristin Hjellegjerde seeks to discover new talents by creating a platform through which they can be exposed to local and international clients. In 2019 she curated Kubatana, a museum exhibition focused on African artists at Vestfossen Kunstlaboratorium, Norway. Her curatorial approach is collaborative, working closely with other curators and collectors, as well as with developers and architects.

In April 2018 the gallery opened its second space in Berlin and a second space was opened in London Bridge. In June 2020, Kristin Hjellegjerde is opening an annual Summer space in the coastal town of Nevlunghavn, Norway.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I feel so fortunate to have had so much time to read and usually I never watch TV but now we binge watched the whole Peaky Blinder series, which left me with many nights with nightmares… still watched to the end. I have been listening to Hazel English, Ren Harvieu, Nina Nielsen, Lenci and Kurt Elling.

And my favourite lockdown books have been: Bernadine Evaristo Girl, Woman, Other, Olivia Laing Funny Weather, Art in an Emergency; Women Artists, the Linda Nochlin Reader, Edited by Maura Reilly; Tara Westover Educated; Ann Patchett The Dutch House, Delia Owens Where the Crawdads Sing and Elizabeth Gilbert City of Girls.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to the gallery? What do you care about?

That everything we do today is for the future and for long term goals.

Ephrem Solomon, Earth Series (18), 2019, Woodcut and mixed media, 82 x 82 cm / 32 1/4 x 32 1/4 in

What do you enjoy the most about running a commercial gallery?

Being able to discover great talents and to help the artists reach their goals, to inform them about sales and knowing we made a collector happy on the other end.

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Through various sources, through other artists, Instagram, articles etc. I usually add the artist to a group show, to first see if we can work well together and that we are going to enjoy each other’s company for the future. If I feel the friendship and can see that the artist is hardworking and continues coming up with great work I will for sure offer a place with us, especially if we also have the right collectors for the artist.

Dawit Abebe, Long Hands 3, 2019, Acrylic and collage on canvas, 70 x 60 cm / 27 1/2 x 23 5/8 in.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I follow my instincts and show only what I feel confident about.

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

I am doing my best at making the artist feel safe to focus solely on their work and remain true to themselves.

Sinta Tantra, Modern Times, 2020, Kristin Hjellegjerde, London Bridge Location, Installation view, Photo by Luca Pfifaretti

What sales channels do you find work best for your artists?

My team and I’s personal friendship with each collector.

Dawit Abebe, Mutual Identity 34, 2020, Mixed Media Drawing on Paper, 100 x 70 cm / 39 3/8 x 27 1/2 in.

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I can mention my friendship with Soheila Sokhanvari, I discovered her before I opened the gallery and she was the first I called when I was opening. We have had over eight years of creative friendship and now we will be traveling together to Australia for her inclusion in the Triennial at the National Museum of Victoria in Melbourne, and next year will have a solo show at a London museum, more information to follow. But it’s fantastic to be there for someone through the journey to success.

Soheila Sokhanvari, The Love Addict, 2019, Egg tempera on calf vellum, 27 x 40 cm / 10 5/8 x 15 3/4 in.

What risks have you taken in the gallery that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

The first four years I was barely getting by, I started with no collectors and no experience completely naive…! It took me many years to be able to pay myself a salary. So, I worked out of passion, and I can finally see results, it takes an immense amount of determination.

Nengi Omuku, Funke I, 2019, Oil on Sanyan, 91.4 x 61 cm / 36 x 24 in

What new strategies are you trying or considering in the current climate? How will you measure success?

I am opening a gallery in Norway in June, by the sea, it will be with one solo show every year opening with a midsummer night party and last until August. In relation to the current climate we will do less art fairs and focus much more on in-house events, dinners, and stronger bonds with both our artists and collectors. We believe the gallery space will be important again and that it’s the personal friendships that counts.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

By seeing the work in person again I hope people will have gained the patience to take in the artwork for a longer time and feel it. With the art more inspiration and a greater conversation and appreciation.

Gerald Chukwuma, AFTER, 2020, Mixed Media, 185.4 x 170.2 cm / 73 x 67 in.

Do you have any advice for artists? 

Dare to go to that place where you are completely you!

Ephrem Solomon, Earth Series (17 ), 2019, Woodcut and mixed media, 82 x 82 cm / 32 1/4 x 32 1/4 in.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

I am trying to create a family of support and I think that by the friendships they are building between each other they will feel safe and comforted. I recommend the artist to surround themselves with people they can trust.

Follow @KHjellegjerde @kristinhjellegjerdegallery and visit

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Coming Next...

An interview with artist Grant Foster (b.1982, Worthing), a London based artist who completed an MA in Painting at the Royal College of Art in 2012. Foster’s recent selected exhibitions include: I’m Not Being Funny, Lychee One, London, 2019; Trade Gallery, Nottingham, 2018; Ground, Figure, Sky, Tintype Gallery, London, 2017; Popular Insignia, Galleria Acappella, Naples, 2016; Salad Days, Ana Cristea Gallery, New York, 2015; Holy Island, Chandelier Projects, London, 2014; Bloomberg New Contemporaries, Spike Island and ICA, 2013-14. In 2019 he was the Randall Chair at Alfred University New York, 2019; Fellow in Contemporary Art with The British School at Rome, 2019 and a Prize-winner in John Moores 25, 2008.



I first met Helen Nisbet in 2014, when we both worked at Contemporary Art Society in London.

I loved working with Helen and was struck by her knowledge, kindness, and her ability to put artists and clients at ease with her sincere interest, enthusiasm, quick wit, and generosity.

Helen is committed to working collaboratively and transparently. We share a love of working with interdisciplinary artists who dig deep, who challenge us and themselves.

Helen Nisbet is a curator from Shetland, now based in London. She is Artistic Director for Art Night and curates projects across the UK, including projects and exhibitions with artists Helen Cammock; Mark Leckey; Heather Phillipson; Christine Sun Kim; Keith Piper; Barbara Kruger; Flo Brooks and Zadie Xa. Helen sits on the Acquisitions Committee for the Arts Council Collection and the Advisory Board for Art Quest and a-n.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I found immersing myself in fiction helpful at the beginning of all this. I finished Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall trilogy with the excellent The Mirror and The Light. I haven't been able to engage with anything so large since so I've also been looking at shorter essays and stories by some of my favourite writers - Audre Lorde, bell hooks, Lydia Davis, and Doris Lessing. My friend Catriona sent me The Secret Diary of Adrian Mole aged 13 3/4 for my birthday - it’s such a good insight into Thatcher's Britain, written and set when I was a baby. I can't believe I haven't read it before.

I'm only now, almost 3 months deep, feeling like I'm in the right headspace for engaging with artwork online. I find the idea of a digital programme tricky, but Alberta Whittle's interim work for Glasgow International was full of rage and softness. I have no idea how she managed to make it, right now, in amongst all this shit, but that's why she's so great.

Helen Cammock, Shouting in Whispers, 2017, poster by Cecilia Serafini

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

First, is the work good? There is no better place to start.

More personally, it is always about people. Supporting artists, presenting their work well, thinking about what sort of programme am I putting together, who it is for, how people might experience it.

Christine Sun Kim, If Sign Language Was Considered Equal We'd Already Be Friends, Art Night, 2019, Image courtesy Matt-Rowe

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How do you test or scope your ideas?

Sometimes things happen quickly - ideas that have been developing for years fall into place. Mostly it is about ensuring space and time for research (something curators rarely get enough of, and this shows). I couldn't do anything without friends and peers to test ideas with.

There's usually someone or many people who know a lot more about things than I do. It is very important for me to make sure other voices are part of my work and that those voices are acknowledged appropriately.

Joe Namy, Automobile, Art Night 2019

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Talking to others, reading and of course social media. It is never good enough, but unless you have limitless funds, time, and support there will always be gaps in your knowledge.

Who I work with depends entirely on context, I might have a relationship with someone for years before it is the best opportunity to work together arises. It should feel organic and natural. It's also about thinking of the artist - making sure I'm bringing someone into something that is going to work for them too.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

Again, it totally depends on the context. The most important thing is not to assume who an audience will be and to give a damn about not just attracting the same people. I also try to resist the pressure that something can only be deemed good or successful if it pulls in a large crowd, this is a really dangerous direction for presenting art, but one that, due to funding and other pressures, is becoming increasingly normal.

Julie Cunningham, Art Night 2019, Image courtesy Thierry Bal

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

Again, that absolutely depends. If I invite an artist to be in a show or project it is my responsibility to make sure they have been communicated with clearly about what they're getting involved in - the fee, the expectation, the parameters.

The role of a curator can so often feel like project management, so it’s important to make sure I'm also talking to the artist about the work, the ideas and the development of those ideas rather than just hitting them with logistics and institutional heaviness.

Helen Cammock, Cubitt, 2017, Image courtesy Mark Blower

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

It depends entirely on context. If it's a solo show I want the artist to make something they are happy with, that they want to realise. I will work with them to keep this on track with the environment of the space we are working with. If we're talking about a group project, it could be more about re-presenting an idea or history. It is important to me that my shows have an openness that allows people to have their own feelings without my hand looming heavily overhead.

Mark Leckey, Affect Bridge Age Regression, Cubitt, 2017

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I have too many to list, and a handful of artists I feel very smooshy about. Some projects become long-term things. Like anything in life - sometimes you meet people and they become very important. There are a few artists who I know I will work with repeatedly.

Mutual respect, mutual politics (possibly relating to class and the way I see people and treat others) and a bit of magic.

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

There have been times when I have gone against my instincts, perhaps the opposite situation to my previous answer. Artists who should absolutely have had shows, but maybe not with me.

Also, it is hard to get into the art world. Not only to know what you want to be doing but to be able to be able to do what you want to do. So, I've worked on things I wouldn't want to do again. But knowing what you don't want to do is even more powerful than knowing what you do want to do.

Houses are Really Bodies, Cubitt, 2017

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

I look back on my whole Cubitt programme in a misty romantic haze. I absolutely loved being there. Because of that, my first exhibition Houses are Really Bodies, which looked at Leonora Carrington's writing, marked the beginning of a very important time in my life.

Do you help fundraise for the show you curate & if so how?

Usually. This involves exploring all possible and ethical options for public funding, Trusts and Foundations, sponsorship, or support from private individuals.

I'm not sure I know any curator who has not had to learn how to do this and make their own networks and connections to support this. Unless they work for well-funded organisations or the things, they do are self-financed...

Hannah Quinlan and Rosie Hastings, Art Night 2019, Image courtesy Rachel Cherry

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

That changes with each project and who the people are. If it is my family, that they would feel comfortable enough to stay in the room for longer than 5 minutes.

Extending this principle, I want people to feel comfortable in a space - physically comfortable, cared for, welcomed. Considering disability and access are crucial here. If I can get this right, it is easier for people to have their own experience, to feel at liberty to take from the show what they want to or can.

Emma Talbot, Art Night 2019, Image courtesy Thierry Bal

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

The definition of who is emerging, who is mid, who is late...I find all this precarious. Loads of artists who could be deemed 'emerging' are talking about quitting right now or finding another way to make money. But this is a whole other conversation.

I was on the jury for the Margaret Tait award recently, and it was won by Emilia Beatriz. They probably qualify as 'emerging' and I am extremely excited both by their proposal for the award and to see what they do over the next few years.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

There are lots of great curators, educators, producers, and writers doing important work right now, so I would steer artists in their direction - depending on what they're interested in.

In terms of resources, I am on the board of Artquest and a-n and both do vital work in supporting artists throughout their career.

Artists who are wary of social media, I get it, but it really can be so useful and wide reaching. Just go light on the hashtags.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

The curator is not the institution, even though some might feel hard to distinguish. Often our hands are tied, we can be badly paid, we do not have the power, or we are badly treated and so are unable to support you in the way you should be supported. This is not true of all curators, but something to note and be mindful of.

The other bit of advice is to be clear on what you want and any problems that arise. A good curator will navigate this with you.

Follow Helen Nisbet on socials @helennisbet @helen_nisbet @artquestlondon @artnightldn @anartistsinfo

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Coming Next...

An interview with


Interview: WILL JARVIS

Will Jarvis studied painting at Camberwell College, London, graduating in 2009. He teamed up with fellow art student Harry Beer to establish The Sunday Painter, initially launching as a project space in The Marlborough pub, London in 2008. In 2014 the gallery became commercial and Tom Cole joined as a Director. In 2017 The Sunday Painter moved from its' base in Peckham to a larger permanent space in Vauxhall.

I first met Will around 2009, when I was running my own gallery (Ceri Hand Gallery, Liverpool) and I have been a huge fan of his and The Sunday Painter’s programme ever since.

Will and I manned a booth for our respective galleries at the Manchester Contemporary art fair in 2013. I really loved The Sunday Painter’s presentation (artists Piotr Lakomy, Guy Rusha and Samara Scott) and it was a joy to listen to Will talking with enthusiasm to clients and the public.

He cares deeply about art and the artists he represents. He is admirably, intensely articulate, playful, and sincere, which is an engaging combination and evident in his approach to selling, exhibiting and exchanges with people. This interview took place on 13 May 2020.

Will Jarvis, Photo Peter Lally

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

This is a very difficult time and my heart goes out to people affected by this awful disease. At the same time, I feel a sense of relief in relation to Global Warming. One billion animals died as a result of the forest fires in Australia, the direct result of Global Warming, collectively we have done very little to change our habits so in some sense I feel relieved we are now forced to and really hope this can exact some lasting change. So, reading about nature recovering and emerging myself in books about foraging and Taoism is my current vibe.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to the gallery? What do you care about?

I think one’s values and drives (like most things in life) shift over time, working with artists who I love and respect as human beings not just as artists is very important. Searching for, and collaborating in, the creation of ambitious and imaginative experiences is a still a major drive.

Tyra Tingleff, Will always be the opposite, installation view, 2018, The Sunday Painter

What do you enjoy the most about running a commercial gallery?

I had to come to come to terms with the reality that I actually love the act of selling artwork, I really enjoy the adrenaline that comes with a sale, it’s taken me a long time to be comfortable with that as I’d never seen myself as being materialistic.

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

We look across different platforms, from MA’s and BA’s, various project spaces, other commercial or non-commercial galleries and social media. Ultimately we have to believe in the vision of an artist, our faith in them has to go beyond a singular successful body of work, we also have to like them and feel our efforts are appreciated, that they understand it’s a collaborative effort, that we put in a lot of energy and take a lot of risk in what we do.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I guess over the years we get a feel for who likes what, which tone or taste might work where, or for whom.

Leo Fitzmaurice, Autosuggestions, installation view, 2020, The Sunday Painter

What kind of support or expertise do you offer or provide artists?

Firstly, a beautiful gallery space with a solo show every two to three years, working on their behalf as essentially an agency to promote and help further their careers. Economic support in the form of sales and production money.

All kinds of practical help ranging from consignments for museum shows to feedback about a direction they might be moving their work in.

What sales channels do you find work best for your artists?

Up until very recently this has been an event-based industry, it is also one built on personal relationships, when it’s worked best it is the combination of both that create conditions most conducive to selling.

Nicholas Pope, Sins and Virtues, installation view, 2018, The Sunday Painter

What sales channels do you find work best for your artists?

Up until very recently this has been an event-based industry, it is also one built on personal relationships, when it’s worked best it is the combination of both that create conditions most conducive to selling.

Cynthia Daignault,, 2020, Oil on Linen, 30 × 45 inches

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

Well all the relationships are rewarding, or we would not be able to maintain them, but it is greatly satisfying to work with an artist in placing work into a major institution. Cynthia Daignault and I worked together on placing her seminal (360 panel) painting Light Atlas into the Crystal Bridges Collection, and more recently with Nicholas Pope in getting a large ceramic font into the V&A collection.

What risks have you taken in the gallery that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

Our second ever Frieze Art fair we showed a conceptual artwork that essentially disappeared, it was available to buy but really only as a temporary performance of the work and a certificate. It was an incredible work, but in hindsight not the most business savvy move for a young and impoverished commercial gallery. I certainly don’t regret doing it but have since realised that peoples receptivity to certain works or ideas is relative to an environment or context.

Rob Chavasse, Marsh Lane Diversion, 2016, Diverted shipment of plasterboard, Frieze London, 2016 

What new strategies are you trying or considering in the current climate? How will you measure success?

Ironically, the nature of a gallery with its poor cash flow, heavy expenses and tiny profit margin has meant this brave new world has not been as painful as expected. In terms of measuring success however that might be tough as our sense of satisfaction comes from a more holistic collection of metrics which include Gallery attendance so as, yet the jury is still out.

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

I just hope they feel something, even if it's just repulsed or confused.

Emma Hart, Commercial Breakz, 2017, Frieze London

Do you have any advice for artists? 

Get involved in your local art scene, realise the line between DIY and ‘professional’ is incredibly thin and at the end of the day it’s shared passion that holds this strange misshapen thing together, that even makes it a thing.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

See Saw app is a great resource, use it to go to openings, drink, and chat to people, make friends.

Follow @TSPGALLERY and visit

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Coming Next...

An interview with curator Helen Nisbet, a curator from Shetland, now based in London. She is Artistic Director for Art Night and curates projects across the UK, including projects and exhibitions with artists Helen Cammock; Mark Leckey; Heather Phillipson; Christine Sun Kim; Keith Piper; Barbara Kruger; Flo Brooks and Zadie Xa. Helen sits on the Acquisitions Committee for the Arts Council Collection and the Advisory Board for Art Quest and a-n.



I have long admired Francesca Gavin and her socially and politically engaged, cross platform work in the arts, but I recently had the pleasure of working with her in my capacity as Director of Programmes at Somerset House. I commissioned her to develop a project she had realised in Paris and curate the brilliant exhibition Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi supported by Somerset House’s team.

I am in awe of her fearless enthusiasm and zest for life, her breadth of knowledge and her can-do, collaborative, and considerate approach to working with artists, designers, and institutions and organisations. Her answers to this interview are reflective of her transparent, receptive and open way of thinking about the world and broad range of interests.

Francesca Gavin is a curator and writer based in London. She is the Art Editor of Twin, editor at large at Kaleidoscope and contributing editor at Good Trouble, Beauty Papers and Semaine. She was the co-curator of the Historical Exhibition of Manifesta11 and has curated exhibitions internationally including The Dark Cube (Palais de Tokyo), E-Vapor-8 (Site Sheffield), and The New Psychedelia (Mu).

She established the Soho House group collection for seven years, amassing over 3000 artworks. Gavin has written six books including Watch This Space, The Book of Hearts, 100 New Artists and Hell Bound: New Gothic Art, and contributed to numerous publications including The Financial Times, Dazed, wallpaper*, Mousse, AnOther and Newsweek. She has a monthly radio show Rough Version on NTS Radio on art and music.

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

Dancing. Doing online commercial and heels dance classes twice a day peppered with Instagram Live work outs, Pilates and stretch classes. Basically, putting my attention on the physical to switch my brain off. My attention span has gone out the window and I can barely watch a 30 min episode let alone a movie. I've managed one short book - which I think deserved an award.

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

Providing opportunity and attention for artists who are not necessarily part of the big financial market scene. I am a big fan of positive discrimination when putting together shows and am always conscious of the percentage of female, POC and queer artists in the shows I put together. I am driven by the desire to make art as interesting and accessible to as wide an audience as possible. Make people who would not necessarily feel comfortable with a white cube, inspired, and interested in contemporary art.

Carsten Holler, Pilzkoffer (Mushroom Suitcase), 2008, Featured in Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi, at Somerset House. Photo © Mark Blower

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How you test or scope your ideas?

A lot of my shows have emerged out of my background, which I’m aware has influenced my taste. I come from a very left-wing family with a writer mother and actor/singer father. I lived in Los Angeles and Woodstock, upstate NY between the age of 3 and 11. My parents are both major bibliophiles and I grew up surrounded by books on esoteric, spirituality, aliens, plants, travel and was living in a town that still resonated with the aftermath of the Counter Culture. Most of my shows have touched on ideas that have emerged from ideas around psychedelic. I definitely am inspired by the innovation and politics that came out of the late 1960s and 1970s. I was also a computer game nerd and technology is another running theme of interest in my exhibitions, as well as the topic of my last book. I learnt to read music before I learnt to read, and that is another running interest. I DJed for a decade, still have a love of club culture and my radio show is a focus for that interest in art practices.

Ideas for shows come quite naturally. I buy magazines constantly and make scrapbooks out of things that excite me. When not in lockdown, I see shows every day. I travel a lot and look at things constantly. Ideas come out of the work that I'm seeing. I make connections between things in my head and it goes from there. I've always called myself a journalistic curator - as writing is 50% of what I do - and putting together a show is a very similar process as putting together a thematic article or book.

Francesca Gavin with Appau Junior Boakye-Yiadom for Rough Version on NTS radio

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

Everywhere. Project spaces, Instagram, online shows, art magazines, all art fairs, gallery weekends and obviously galleries. Socially I'll meet a lot, particularly when I travel and have more freedom to hang out.

It is always the work that makes me decided to work with someone. If what they are making resonates with a project in progress or sparks ideas in my head. I should do more studio visits, but I never want to waste an artist's time unless I'm working on something specific.

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I'm looking for originality, beauty, and interesting take on existence. Thinking of the audience reaction is not necessarily affecting my decision to work with someone - but placing them in a context where their work makes interesting statements and juxtapositions is.

Graham Little, Untitled (Wood), 2019, Featured in Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi, at Somerset House. Courtesy of Alison Jacques Gallery, London

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

A platform to show their work. I often work with artists more than once if that process has gone well and their work suits future projects.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

An exhibition that makes people think and inspires ideas around politics, meaning, beauty and how we experience the world. I want people to have fun as much as use their brains.

The New Psychedelica, MU, April 8 - June 5, 2011

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

I love working with Ben Sainsbury. He is an incredible artist who does not show enough but I know I can trust implicitly to create fascinating work that response to a particular idea or context. He was in my first ever exhibition of reworked postcards Improved, the ultraviolet show The Dark Cube I put on at Palais de Tokyo, The New Psychedelica at MU, Eindhoven and most recently in a window show I did for Ballon Rouge in Brussels last summer Have A Butcher's. We come from similar backgrounds. He grew up down the road from me in North London. We overlapped on the skate scene. He is immensely hands-on when working on a show and I always know the results will pop. I only wish I had a gallery so I could coax him to show his work more!

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

Honestly? Co-curating the Historical Exhibition of Manifesta 11 in Zurich was a huge eye opener. I expected that getting 100 out of 130 artists for one of the biggest biennials in the world, with a show in four of the most respected institutions in Switzerland would lead to more career opportunities. While the process of creating the show with Christian Jankowski was enjoyable, I was quickly written out of the biennial's narrative and nothing direct came out of the show (partly because no one knew I did it). I’m still very proud of the artists I put in the show - people like Susan Hiller, James Son Ford Thomas, Adrien Piper, Rachel Harrison, Anne Collier, Thornton Dial. I learnt to be very careful about how I was credited and to make sure that I bring a lot of credit to whatever team I work with on shows. There is no such thing as a single curator. Exhibitions are very much collaborative efforts and show have cast list in the same way as films.

Alex Morrison, Mushroom Motif (Black and Ochre), 2017, Featured in Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi, at Somerset House. Courtesy of the artist, care of L’inconnue Gallery, Montreal

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

So hard to choose. I'm very proud of Manifesta 11 for its scale and ambition but I would have to say Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi which I curated at Somerset House. It opened at the end of January and I was blown away by its success. I was working with an incredible team - notably Berta Zubrickaite and Claire Catterall in house, and Pentagram as designers for the show. We had up to 1800 people visiting per day and I think many people look at fungi in a whole new light.

Cochlea Brick Tuft, by Hamish Pearch. Featured in Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi, at Somerset House. Courtesy of the artist

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

That contemporary art is not as alienating, pretentious or irrelevant as they may think. That looking at art can make you think of the world in new ways.

Seana Gavin, collage installation view, Featured in Mushrooms: The Art, Design and Future of Fungi, at Somerset House. © Mark Blower

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

Emerging art is one of my favourite things and I want to revive my regular Monday instagram post bringing attention to new talent #newmoononmonday. I'm very into the work of some young Black British artists Dominique White, Rhea Dillon, Appau Jr Boakye-Yiadom and Ashley Holmes for example, whose visual language and references I find very interesting and emotive.

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

Auto Italia South East does some amazing work curatorially and in other ways. Currently they are helping artists with applications for funding and residencies, an almost esoteric process to those outside of institutions.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

Be collaborative. Understand they are trying to balance many factors to make a show work. If you have issues with things don't let it fester - be open, honest, and polite as quickly and early as possible.

For more info on Francesca visit her website or follow her on socials @roughversion

All feedback, recommendations, links, and ideas welcome!

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Coming Next...

An interview with the awesome Will Jarvis, Co-Founder, The Sunday Painter Gallery @TSPGALLERY



I first met George Vasey in 2013 at my gallery in London and subsequently enjoyed the text he published in a newspaper, as part of his MFA curating course at Goldsmiths. I have enjoyed following his career and programming ever since. I admire his gentle, inquisitive, interrogative, considerate and generous approach.

I am also humbled by his voracious appetite for research and his extraordinary knowledge of so many different aspects of culture and society, evident in his responses below. His curatorial approach weaves art historical and contemporary references, artworks, images and objects together, so they resonate and riff off each other. His exhibitions are sensory and intellectually rich, playful, meaning-full and respectful to the artists vision. It’s clear in all manifestations of his ideas that he loves art and artists and is committed to bringing their work to a wider public.

Photograph by Thomas Farnetti. Source Wellcome Collection 

George Vasey is a curator at Wellcome Collection and writer. He has curated projects across the UK in commercial and public galleries. He has previously worked as Curator at Northern Gallery for Contemporary Art (NGCA), Sunderland and as a Curatorial Fellow at Newcastle University. In 2017 he co-curated the Turner Prize at Ferens Art Gallery, Hull. His writing has been published in Art Monthly, Burlington Contemporary, Frieze, and Mousse magazine. He is a trustee at New Contemporaries, an Artist Adviser for Jerwood Arts and on the executive committee for AICA UK. .

What are you doing, reading, watching or listening to now that is helping you to stay positive?

I listened to a podcast recently where the musician Laura Marling describes writing as “breathing out” and research as “breathing in” the world around her. This moment feels like a breathing in period where I’m processing what is happening. I’ve been reading a lot and recently enjoyed books from Rachel Cusk, Rebecca Solnit and Jia Tolentino. I’m currently reading Elton John’s Me which is very funny. I just finished Jerry Saltz’ How to be An Artist which is full of great advice.

I’ve been listening to lots of podcasts and watching online projects. I’ve particularly enjoyed Transmissions by Tai Shani, Anne Duffau and Hana Noorali. My partner Elinor Morgan and I listen into Jonathan P Watt’s Radio Caroline most nights. It’s great to feel part of an online community that these projects foster. Music is a huge part of what makes me happy and I’ve enjoyed new albums from Caribou, BC Camplight, Fiona Apple and Childish Gambino.

Shona Macnaughton performing at Blend the Acclaim of your Chant with the Timbrels, 2016, Jerwood Space London. Image copyright of Hydar Dewachi 

What are your core values and drivers that you bring to your curatorial work? What do you care about?

I’m just fairly obsessed by art. It hooked me as a teenager and in some ways, I wish I’d found a passion with a job that was more secure and paid more, but that’s life! I feel very fortunate that I get paid to work with artists and learn from them. I make sense of the world through art (and music, films and books) and care deeply about what artists can bring to the world. I want to make galleries and museums feel more accessible to audiences and ensure that more people from a diverse range of backgrounds have opportunities in the art world.

I remember training around 800 volunteers for Hull City of Culture when I co-curated the Turner Prize in 2017. It was such as transformative experience and it articulates what I care about — sharing an enthusiasm for culture with others. Many of the volunteers were so committed and energised and they wanted to learn about contemporary art. I once heard somebody say that a curator’s role is to turn confusion into curiosity, and I think that nails it.

The Everyday Political, 2018, (installation view). Photography by Damian Griffiths. Courtesy of Artists and Southwark Park Galleries

How do you develop your curatorial ideas? How you test or scope your ideas? 

When working up an idea for an exhibition I ask myself some simple questions; why should I do this now? What form should it take? Who is it for? Who should be part of the conversation? These questions are really crucial in developing an idea into a workable proposal. My ideas often come tangentially, and they can percolate for many years. They often emerge while I’m washing the dishes, having a conversation with someone or going for a run. Ideas are shaped in conversation with artists and peers, and each project is formed through these collaborations. What you often see in the gallery is a negotiation between lots of different factors. Ideas are the easy part and turning them into compelling projects takes lots of strategy, time, commitment and energy.

A good example of how an idea became an exhibition was These Rotten Words, an exhibition I curated at Chapter Arts Centre in 2017. The title came from a photograph of graffiti that Mark Leckey posted on Instagram that said, “words don’t mean anything anymore.” I just loved the poetry of the statement. It made me think about political disempowerment. I thought about the idea of disillusion being a fertile space for new forms and how punk music often played with the repetition of words to shift their meaning into melody. I liked the word rotten (after Johnny Rotten) and thought it framed the ways in which some artists I’d been in conversation with (Anna Barham, Anneke Kampman, and Marie-Michelle Deschamps) were playing with language. Hannah Firth invited me to do an exhibition alongside a festival they were doing around the spoken word and the show came together.

These Rotten Words, 2017, Chapter Art Centre, Cardiff. Image courtesy of Jamie Woodley. Work left to right: Anneke Kampman, Rebecca Ackroyd and Joanna Piotrowska 

How do you discover artists and what makes you finally decide you want to work with an artist?

I go to a lot of degree shows and see as many exhibitions as I can. A lot of artists get in contact with me and people recommend artists all the time. I try and do studio visits as much as possible. Over the years I’ve discovered many great artists through New Contemporaries and Jerwood Arts, two organisations who have both played a pivotal role in giving artists their first real exposure and I’m now involved with in different ways.

Working with artists is often about building relationships. I may put an artist in a group show and if the conversation is fruitful that may build into a commission or solo show. I often write about an artist’s work and develop a relationship that way. Of course, I work with someone because the work is good but it’s important that we both get something from the collaboration and that we can work well together. I want to feel like I’m useful for an artist and not every artist needs the kind of support I can offer.

Shona Macnaughton performing at Blend the Acclaim of your Chant with the Timbrels, 2016, Jerwood Space London. Image copyright of Hydar Dewachi

How do you gauge which artists and artworks will be interesting to audiences?

I trust my gut instinct and I try and listen to what audiences are saying. A trendy early career artist may get you lots of attention in the art world but have little traction with local audiences in Sunderland. With an exhibition programme you’re trying to take people on a journey that registers on a local as well as national level.

I think if the rationale of an exhibition or programme is embedded in a story people are interested in they will engage with it. You’re trying to figure what is important to people and then undermine or at least broaden their expectations. People want to understand the rationale for the work in front of them — it’s often not the work that’s boring or inaccessible, it’s the interpretation. People want something to hook onto. I don’t believe that the curator’s job is to tell people what value art has to their lives has, but empower people to contribute to, and contest, what is valuable to society. When people come into a gallery and tell me that they don’t understand the work, I often say; “good, neither do I.” Let’s learn together.

What do you offer or provide artists in the curatorial relationship?

I studied art originally and made work for years and came into curating through putting on shows in my front room. I know what it feels like to sit in a cold studio and be lost with your own work. I think artists typically need space, time, money and dialogue to make their work. In the first instance I offer recognition and discussion. I’m a fan and a critical friend. If the right opportunities come together, I can help with fundraising and create visibility for the work. Sometimes that can be as simple as a nomination for an award, a recommendation to another curator or an actual show.

When I work with an artist, I’m offering them my attention. I often say that I’m a curator not a magician. I have no magic wand and I make no promises, but I’ll work hard for the artist to help them in any feasible way I can.

Can you describe what you ideally want to achieve when curating an exhibition?

I’m aiming to achieve different things with specific projects. I’m trying to add something to the cultural landscape and to foreground the voices of artists I think are doing interesting things and perhaps I feel are being overlooked. At Wellcome Collection, where I currently work, we aim to challenge how people think and feel about health, so the projects are really attempting to bring art into conversation with cultural and scientific discourse — to critically examine assumptions, and to explore how knowledge is formed through particular ideological structures.

What I’m typically trying to achieve with an exhibition is the sense of something prescient that has a personality. A good show is the product of lots of listening and good conversation. Ultimately, I want to learn something through the process of curating. Each project takes something out of me and gives me something and I want to surprise people and surprise myself. I want to go on a journey with an artist. I’m like a companion on a walk — although I’m useless reading maps.

Can you describe one of your most rewarding relationships with an artist - what factors made it enjoyable?

There have been so many artists who have become friends so I wouldn’t want to single one out! A good relationship with an artist is super crucial. I’ve worked on exhibitions and commissions for two years where you’re speaking to the artist daily. I think transparency and honesty are really important. Problems arise when an artist feels like the institution isn’t listening or caring about their work. What I’ve learned is that it’s good to be really clear from the outset about roles and responsibilities and not to over promise and also for the artist to be clear about what they need.

Sometimes artists just want to be left alone, others want to talk about everything, and you become a sounding board. The relationships that have been most rewarding for me are when it’s a conversation and you feel that the artist respects your advice and you’re helping them to figure something out about their own work.

Potholes: Drawings of Eric Bainbridge, 1981-2016, 2016 at Workplace Gallery, London. Image courtesy of Workplace Gallery

What risks have you taken in curating that perhaps did not go so well but you learnt the most from?

I’ve curated projects that really haven’t worked that I’m proud of because I was trying something out. Through experience I’ve realised that it's best to start with something simple and build on that. Complex projects quickly unravel unless there is a strict framework.

The projects that I think haven’t worked so well are ones where I’ve tried to respond to a hot topic and not followed my own passion. I often say to students, what is the question your project is posing? If you can’t answer that, the project needs reassessing. I think it’s important to listen and be part of a community, but it takes time — for me at least — to figure out what is personally important.

I do think that bad curating tends to be a kind of visual mixtape, assimilating hot trends but bringing little to the party. So that’s what I think a lot about; what’s my take on this? Who can help me tell this story? I also think it’s crucial to know when to insert your voice and when to take a step back. It’s important to foreground other people’s voices that can tell stories you can’t and learn from these voices.

Turner, 2015, (installation view) at Northern Gallery for Contemporary Art. Photo courtesy of Cornelia Baltese

What is one of your personal favourite exhibitions or events you have curated and why?

A few projects stand out. The first exhibition I curated at Northern Gallery for Contemporary Art was a solo show by Joanna Piotrowska who has gone on to have exhibitions at Tate Britain and be included in the Berlin Biennale and in a show at MoMA. I did a show of paintings (displayed horizontally on wheels) with Cornelia Baltes with a budget of £500 that was bought by the Arts Council Collection. It’s great when you’ve committed to an artist and helped them in some small way on their onward success.

The Everyday Political at Southwark Park Galleries in 2018 was also an important show for me. The director Judith Carlton invited me to curate an exhibition of artists from the North-East to coincide with The Great Exhibition of the North. I still feel really proud of that show as it made me re-evaluate how to make group exhibitions. It felt like a time capsule and captured the conversations I was having with artists such as Joy Labinjo, Adam Phillips from Foundation Press, Emily Hesse and Holly Argent among others.

It was the product of so many studio visits and long discussions with people like Paul Moss at Workplace Gallery and Judith. I have a lot of fond memories of the project. I ended up co-editing an issue of Art Licks with Holly Willats off the back of that show exploring strategic regionalism — the idea of working into the centre rather than working from the centre outwards. It was about regionalism as an idea rather than a location.

The Everyday Political, 2018, Southwark Park Galleries, London, Image courtesy of Damian Griffiths
Work left to right: Joy Labinjo, Women Artists of the North East Library, Harriet Sutcliffe and Kuba Ryniewicz

What would you hope that people experience and learn from seeing one of your exhibitions or events?

I think that people should know themselves and the world slightly less when they encounter an artwork. I think good exhibitions can raise questions, create nuance, and undermine expectations. I also want people to be inspired.

Do you help fundraise for the show you curate & if so how?

Yes, more so in some contexts. When I worked as curator at NGCA I had to fundraise for every show and most independent projects need to be fundraised for. You’re normally modelling various outcomes for a project based on whether you’ll get money or not. Money has typically come from trusts and foundations, universities, Arts Council, many countries have some form of public funding that enable you to work with international artists. Occasionally commercial galleries and collectors have put money into projects, but my experience is that its typically about building value for projects by sourcing in-kind support and partnerships that can bring money into commissioning opportunities for artists.

Sick Ardour, 2018, Anna Barham at Newcastle University. Image courtesy of Anna Barham

What emerging artists are you excited by right now and why?

You’ve finally stumped me! Lots and I’ll probably forget loads of great people. So, I’ll just focus on artists I saw at last year’s degree shows. Sof’ya Shpurova makes enigmatic and surrealist figurative paintings that riff on Russian folklore and contemporary motifs. They felt very mature for such a young artist. Ayo Akingbade who is currently at the Royal Academy and is already doing incredibly well. Akingbade makes fantastic short-form lyrical documentary films that explore power, identity and community. I can’t wait to see more work by her. Danielle Brathwaite-Shirley’s VR work at the Slade BA show really stayed with me. The work “centres black Trans experience” and it was an intense and psychedelic experience that is really an assault on the senses and makes you feel intensely vulnerable. It’s one of the most interesting uses of VR I’ve experienced.

Misbehaving Bodies: Jo Spence & Oreet Ashery at Wellcome Collection, 2019. Co-curated with Bárbara Rodríguez Muñoz. Image courtesy of the Wellcome Collection, London

What helpful resources would you recommend to artists?

A-N (Artist’s Newsletter) is a great place for practical advice on fees and contracts etc. Artsquest is great also. It depends where you are based but a lot of organisations such as The Newbridge Project (Gateshead), SPACE (London) Eastside Projects (Birmingham), Spike Island (Bristol) have great schemes that provide support and networking opportunities for artists. I think the best resource is your peers really and building local and online communities. I tend to learn about things on Instagram and Twitter.

Do you have any advice for artists working with curators?

Curators are often incredibly busy and split between multiple projects and obligations, so professionalism is key. Keep to deadlines. Be ambitious but realistic. I think clarity is really important. Both parties should be clear about what they can commit to. Be upfront about the terms of the collaboration and don’t be afraid to question contracts and ask for further support. Every curator is different and bring different approaches to the relationship but as you learn about what you need apply it to the next project.

Also, I often say to artists that I like their work and they can keep me up to date with projects. Artists keep in touch with curators! Invite people to your studio. Encourage conversation. Remember that curators represent institutions, but they aren’t the institution.

Follow George on Twitter @georgevasey and Instagram: @georgevasey

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An interview with GAIKA (aka Gaika Tavares), a British artist, musician and writer from South London. His debut album, Basic Volume, was released in 2018 by Warp Records, who describe the sound as "gothic dancehall and industrial electronics"

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